aliens

djchameleon · 04-21-2011, 07:54 AM

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Originally Posted by oojay

Yes, I am quite aware of these facts, so you can stop talking to me like I am a child whom is being taught a history lesson at the local pre-school. What I believe you're overlooking is how these civilization came to possess this great skill and knowledge. The scale of the monolithic structures and the planning required would be a magnificent feat for today's architects and builders. The extraction and transportation of the stones, the laser-like precision of the cuts, the erection of the monuments. These are all things that even today's science cannot explain. So how did it get done thousands of years ago?

You aren't giving us humans enough credit!

We built those monuments ourselves with ingenuity and creativity. It's very easy to erect a pyramid when you look at the logistics of it.

CanwllCorfe · 04-21-2011, 10:32 AM

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Originally Posted by matious

Watch the video i originally posted, there is no possible way to explain the footage at 1:54 or 3:13

I really don't know how it's easy to dismiss.

Actually, the video at 1:54 has been explained.

Rocket, not Santa, blamed for Norway spiral - CNN

RVCA · 04-21-2011, 11:32 AM

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Originally Posted by matious

There's thousands of really good fake ufo videos out there, these news stations (excluding fox) gotta make sure the video's are kinda credible right? Some of the ones they showed were sent in from multiple people with multiple cameras.

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Originally Posted by Abearmauledme

Dude, my ****ing roommate said it was a missile or a meteorite. Don't be like him.

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Originally Posted by oojay

There is evidence. The Roswell crash recovered a ship and 2 alien bodies. There are numerous local reports of this in their newspapers, and testimonials by people who actually witnessed the events.

To all of you:

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Originally Posted by Dirty

Well obviously there isn't any concrete proof. If there was, there would be no debate and everyone would agree aliens exist

Dirty hit the nail square on the head. If there was any kind of solid, reliable, concrete proof for the existence of extraterrestrial life, everyone would know and there wouldn't be any debate about it.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 04-21-2011, 02:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Thom Yorke

It just seems like a massive stretch. You're just trying to attribute everything to aliens based on nothing more than a guess.

No more of a stretch than you attributing architecture and mathematics that are thousands of years out of place to civilizations who barely understood crop rotation and tried to solve people's emotional problems by drilling holes in their head to let the "demons" out.

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Originally Posted by Thom Yorke

Precise measurements are impressive but certainly not out of the realm of what humans are caable of doing, even back then. Also, besides the reat Pyramid, what other monuments are you referring to?

Besides the numerous pyramids, ziggurats, and obelisks, the Nazca lines defy most scientific logic. As well as the numerous monoliths (The Trilithon at Baalbek, the giant stone heads of Moai on Easter Island, the Puma Punka stones of Bolivia, etc.)

Theres ia also the numerous refernces to seemingly ET technologies and events in ancient religious texts.

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Originally Posted by 2 Kings 2:11

there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

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Originally Posted by Exodus 13:21

And Jehovah was going before them by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead them in the way, and by night in a pillar of fire, to give light to them, to go by day and by night

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Originally Posted by Exodus 19:16-18

Yahweh lands on Mt Sinai. “…And on the third day, it being morning, it happened. There were thunders and lightnings, and a heavy cloud upon the mountain, and the sound of a ram’s horn, very strong! And all the people of the camp trembled…And mountain of Sinai was smoking, all of it, because Jehovah came down on it in fire. And it’s smoke went up like the smoke of a furnace; and the mountain quaked exceedingly

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Originally Posted by Ezekiel 3:12

And the spirit lifted me up, and I heard behind me the sound of a great tumult, saying, Blessed be the glory of Jehovah from his place; and the sound of the wings of the living creatures touching each other to the other; and the sound of the wheels along with them; and the sound of a great tumult

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Originally Posted by Micah 1:3-4

Jehovah comes down on the high places with a great heat: “For behold, Jehovah is coming out of his place, and will come down and walk on the high places of the earth. And the mountains shall melt under him, and the valleys shall cleave themselves as wax before the fire, as waters poured out on a steep place

As well as the flying Vimanas of ancient India, Ezekiel's Chariot, the flying Gods and Murats in the Mahabharata.

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“The gods, in cloud-borne chariots…bright celestial cars in concourse sailed upon the cloudless sky.”

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“…loud roaring as the winds make the mountains rock and reel…(as they) lift themselves aloft…these verily wondrous, red of hue, speed on their course with a roar over the ridges of the sky…and spread themselves with beams of light…bright, celestial, with lightning in their hands and helmets of gold upon their heads.”

There is also the Divine Throne Chariots mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls

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“The Divine Throne-Chariot draws its inspiration from Ezekiel(1:10) and is related to the Book of Revelation. It depicts the appearance and movement of the Merkabah, the divine Chariot supported and drawn by the cherubim, which is at the same time a throne and a vehicle. The ‘small voice’ of blessing is drawn from 1 Kings 19:112: it was in a ‘small still voice’ that God manifested himself to Elijah. In our Qumran text this voice is uttered by the cherubim and it is interesting to note that although the Bible does not define the source of the voice, the ancient Aramaic translation of 12 Kings (Targum of Jonathan) ascribes it to angelic beings called ‘they who bless silently.’”

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“The Throne-Chariot was a central subject of meditation in ancient as well as in medieval Jewish esotericism and mysticism, but the guardians of Rabbinic orthodoxy tended to discourage such speculation. The liturgical use of Ezekiel’s chapter on the Chariot is expressly forbidden in the Misnah; it even lays down that no wise man is to share his understanding of the Merkabah with a person less enlightened than himself…”

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“…and the cherubim utter blessings. And as they rise up, there is a divine small voice and loud praise; there is a divine small voice as they fold their wings.

“The cherubim bless the image of the Throne-Chariot above the firmament, and they praise the majesty of the fiery firmament beneath the seat of his glory. And between the turning wheels angels of holiness come and go, as it were a fiery vision of most holy spirits; and about them flow seeming rivulets of fire, like gleaming bronze, a radiance of many gorgeous colors, of marvelous pigments magnificently mingled. The spirits of the Living God move perpetually with the glory of the wonderful Chariot.

“The small voice of the blessing accompanies the tumult as they depart, and on the path of their return they worship the Holy One. Ascending, they rise marvelously; settling, they stay still. The sound of joyful praise is silenced and there is a small voice of blessing in all the camp of God.”

Sparky · 04-21-2011, 02:54 PM

oojay is definitely coming with it.

heres some old pictures with aliens in them

~~[MERIT]~~ · 04-21-2011, 02:59 PM

I believe that William Saylor really makes some very good points:

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The lines and figures which occur over the Earth, e.g. the Peruvian Nazca lines and "roads", the Bolivian "ceques", the radial lines emanating from ancient ceremonial sites, and the British "ley" lines, precisely straight lines which connect ancient sacred sites.

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The ubiquitous pyramids of various styles scattered over the Earth, in Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, the Far East, and in North and South America. They apparently had several functions, serving as burial sites, landmarks, landing sites, bomb shelters, feeding stations, and ceremonial sites.

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The megalithic constructions arrayed essentially all over the Earth; built of enormous stones weighing up to two million pounds. Why and how this was accomplished has not been adequately explained.

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A unique and puzzling characteristic of the megalithic sites of both hemispheres is the complex polygonal stones which were used in their construction. Kiloton stones stacked, molded and sometimes fused together. Why and how?

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The Polar Rounds, the concentration of ancient sites on or near the path of the current and shifted equators, suggesting that the ancient astronauts approached the Earth thru the solar plane , probably to use the planets for braking, and built very close to the equator. Chatelain (1988) says, "The polar rounds and the shift of the equator also explain why we have found traces of civilizations in regions of the Earth that today seem unfit for human habitation…". Remarkably many of the most mysterious sites lie on one of these ancient equators.

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The many ancient writings about "gods" who could move through the air - the Enuma Elish, the Koran, the Popol Vuh, the Mahabharata, the Bible, and the voyages of the gods as depicted on cylinder seals and stellae from ancient Near Eastern civilizations.

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The Heavenly Gateways - getting to and from the Earth. Before construction of the large pyramids and platforms the landing sites were simply a natural rock outcropping. A cave was excavated underneath which protected the priests during the coming and going of the Gods, or were some of them bomb shelters?, e.g.
--Israel: Es-Sakhra, the sacred rock on the Temple Mount, Jerusalem. There is a cave under the rock about 24 x 18 ft, and a hole in the ceiling about 2.5 ft in diameter which permitted access to the surface (Ritmeyer, 1996).
--Egypt: The Great Pyramid. The Great Pyramid was built on a huge bedrock bubble. About 115 ft under the surface, accessed via a 300 ft passageway, is an underground chamber measuring about 46 x 27 ft.
--Egypt: The Step Pyramid, with an elaborate multi-chambered cave underneath, allegedly built by Imhotep.
--Egypt: The pyramids of Mycerinus, Khafre, Unas, Teti and most other all had underground chambers. In fact the pyramids of Mycerinus and some others did not even have chambers in the pyramids - all chambers were underground!
--Mexico: Teotihuacan. There is a cave under the Sun Pyramid with several side chambers (Tompkins, 1976).
--Peru: The Torreon, Machu Picchu. A rock outcrop with a cave and altar underneath.
--Peru: K’enko. A huge, rock outcrop with an altar underneath. A hole above the altar allowed food to be passed to the surface (Fig 2-1).

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There are many other constructions on the Earth which seem to have served
as ancient navigation aids from the air, e.g. the Nazca lines next to the huge ceremonial site of Cahuachi, the Carnac stones and "Fairy Stone" in Brittany, the Sphinx at Giza, the Great Serpent Mound in Ohio, and the "Giant" and other huge drawings in the Chilean and Peruvian deserts.
--The spiral motif was a favorite design of the ancient astronauts, appearing at sites all over the world, e.g. Brittany; Cahuachi, Peru; Chaco Canyon; Nazca, Peru; Kawhia, New Zealand; Mu’a, Tonga; New Grange, Scotland; Tarxien, Malta.
--Consider this: In 1969 at New Grange, Britain, a Prof. O’Kelly proved that on the winter solstice, December 21, the morning sun would enter the passage and illuminate the spiral motif. Across the Atlantic, at Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, light falling on the spiral also was used to mark the equinoxes.
--One legend has it that when we are awakening but still lightly sleeping, we might "see" one or more spirals. When this happens we are able to hear or see through the ears and eyes of someone nearby or share their thoughts (please let me know if this works!) But to be serious the spiral motif, occurring at ancient megalithic sites all over Earth, obviously had some special significance; and we now know that our galaxy has the shape of a beautiful spiral. Is that it? Is the spiral motif the signature of those who built or provided the tools to build these enigmatic sites?

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They constructed on Earth reflections of their celestial abode:
--Maurice Chatelain (1988) says that the pattern of the most famous cathedrals in 10 French cites "have the same configuration as the stars in the constellation of Virgo."
--Bauval and Gilbert (1994) demonstrate that the Giza pyramids exactly mirror the stars in Orion’s belt on 10,540 bc.
--Leviton and Coons (1987) believe that they have demonstrated the coincidence of a pattern of prehistoric sites in central Somerset with the constellation Canis Major.
--Zecharia Sitchin (1990) finds a pattern in the Coricancha in Cuzco which he feels closely resembles the constellation Cygnus.

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Characteristics of site selection: Identification and access from the air, security and disease control.
--The important ancient sites seem to have been selected for easy identification and access from the air; on mountain peaks (Mt. Sinai, Machu Picchu, Mt. Olympus), on islands in lakes (Malta, Lake Titicaca), or on large artificial platforms (Baalbek, The Temple Mount).
--In addition various sites where the gods came and went were inaccessible by most of the people of that time, on the tops of mountains or pyramids. They would not allow humans near them, except priests who had cleansed and covered themselves and spread a germicide, suggesting their susceptibility to human diseases.
--Black and Green (1992) state that a sick person was considered to have sinned, that is, committed an offense against moral or divine law. The illness could be expelled or undone by a god whom the “patient” would appeal to through prayer. They write, “The use of the word 'patient' emphasizes the Babylonian view of sin as synonymous with disease. Sin could be transmitted by relatives or inherited from parents…Babylonians did not have a concept of original sin, but they believed that they were all very prone to sin.” (i.e. disease). This apparently is also the meaning of sin as used in the Old Testament.
--And Jehovah said to Moses, "Go to the people and sanctify them today and tomorrow. And let them wash their clothes." (Exo 19:10).
If you read the old testament substituting “disease” or “germs” for “sin” and “sterilize” for “sanctify” you will be surprised.
--And Jehovah said to Moses, "Go down, warn the people lest they break through to gaze at Jehovah, and many of them fall." (Exo 19:21).
--"And also the priests, those approaching Jehovah, let them sanctify (cleanse) themselves, that Jehovah not burst forth among them." (Exo 19:22).
--"And Jehovah said to him (Moses), ‘Come, go down. And you come up and Aaron with you. And let not the priests and the people break through to come up to Jehovah, lest He burst forth among them.’" (Exo 19:23).
--"And if you make an altar of stone for Me, you shall not build them of cut stones. When you swing your tool on it you defile it." (Exo 20:25).

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Apparently some of the gods were frightful to look at, and took great care to not be seen by humans, except possibly by the highest priests.

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The feeding of large numbers of AAs by the "sacrifice" of animals, and sometimes humans.

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Genetic engineering. From various ancient texts we read of the creation of mankind and "virgins" giving birth to god-kings and prophets. As our own biotechnology evolves what were unfathomable mysteries for our forefathers are now beginning to make sense.

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Astronomy and mathematics. The ancient civilizations, which arose in both hemispheres near the equator, possessed an extensive knowledge of astronomy and mathematics.

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The sudden appearance of a technologically advanced human civilization. John Cohane (1977) writes, "Until one arrives at Cro-Magnon man, about 30,000 bc, it is impossible to hold up a single piece of fossil evidence and say with assurance: ‘This came from an ancestor of man’." He discusses other evidence and concludes, "…and this evidence indicating that only 10,000 years ago there was a sudden and unaccountable emergence of a full-blown intelligent civilization…".

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The several references to the use of nuclear or other advanced weapons during the god’s struggles with each other.

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They must overcome the restraints of time, and there are several hints of gravitational time dilation when comparing the lives of the ancient astronauts with that of humans.

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All of the ancient ceremonial sites, in both hemispheres, have been abandoned. In the Americas the centers came to an abrupt and unexplained end, with the exception of the Aztec centers, before the arrival of the Spaniards. Tiahuanaco in Bolivia and the entire region were abandoned by 1050 ad. The AAs had all left the Earth.

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Communication with the Gods. There is the suggestion that Yahweh could only communicate with the Israelites via the Ark of the Covenant: "And the Israelites inquired of the LORD, for the ark of the covenant of God was there in those days, and Phinehas son of Eleazar, son of Aaron, ministered before it in those days, saying..."
--The Israelites were instructed to blow a trumpet to signal Jehovah (probably also other AAs) to come to the sacrifice or to call God to an assembly of the tribe, or to signal for God’s assistance during battle (Numbers 10:2-10). This suggests that Yahweh could not receive the prayers of the Israelites; however other passages suggest that Yahweh could indeed receive the prayers of the Israelites if they were within earshot of the Ark. But he apparently could not reply to them via the Ark, only through the prophets within whom he had placed his ‘spirit’, e.g. when Hezekiah prayed the Lord’s answer came through Isaiah who said to Hezekiah, "So says Jehovah, the God of Israel. I have heard that which you have prayed to Me…" ( 2 Kings 19:20).
--Also when David prayed to God, the answer came to David through his "seer", Gad: "And Jehovah spoke to Gad, the seer of David, saying ‘Go; and you shall speak to David, saying…’" (1 Chronicles 21:9).

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Last and most important, the space colonization argument of the SETI community. The argument is that the use of nuclear propulsion at, say, 1/10th the speed of light could easily be accomplished, and that if only one advanced civilization existed in the galaxy it could colonize the galaxy in a mere 1-10 million years. They then conclude that “we don’t see them here; therefore they do not exist”. The following section examines this clue in greater depth.

duga · 04-21-2011, 03:40 PM

I find ancient alien theories fascinating and to be honest, a lot of religion could be explained by their existence. The one thing I don't like to do, however, is downplay human accomplishment. It is easy to look back and say, "Oh, we were really stupid and primitive back then. There is no way anyone could have come up with that stuff." Wrong. We are just as intelligent as we were 3,000 years ago. There were ancient Einsteins in every ancient civilization. The difference is the WAY we thought. As oojay pointed out, there was no distinction between science and religion. Now there is. People thought differently as little as 100 years ago. They were still just as intelligent as us.

So. Go ahead with the AA theories, just please stop trying to use mathematical and technological accomplishment as evidence. Humans have been pretty clever throughout history.

Mr November · 04-24-2011, 02:04 PM

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Originally Posted by RVCA

How is that? Do you know what the chances of human beings "happening" were?

Why? What makes Earth so special? The universe is so incomprehensibly vast that it's quite silly and self-important to think that humans are somehow special.

It's quite silly to think that we aren't special. We have existed for a blip in time against huge odds. The human race came very close to being wiped out in its early days, and it was no guarantee that even with the amazing conditions the earth provides us, truly intelligent life would develop. Humanity is a precious, rare, fragile, thing. I don't believe in God, or that we are special, or that there is any way to measure how important we are. So the truth is, I'm just trying to be skeptical of the idea that we can just assume there is life elsewhere in the universe, let alone life capable or inspired to visit us.

When you factor in the ideal location of our planet in relation to other bodies in our solar system, the size of the planet, and the atmosphere - along with the briefness of our own existence and the unlikely hood that we would have come to be in the first place - I think we suffer from looking at the universe from the point of view of lottery winners. It's only because we do exist, that existence seems so common.

I don't think that's an idea that's worthy of ridicule.

RVCA · 04-24-2011, 06:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Ian E Coleman

When you factor in the ideal location of our planet in relation to other bodies in our solar system, the size of the planet, and the atmosphere - along with the briefness of our own existence and the unlikely hood that we would have come to be in the first place - I think we suffer from looking at the universe from the point of view of lottery winners. It's only because we do exist, that existence seems so common.

This is a common train of thought. "Everything had to be perfect for us to exist, and here we are! We must be special." Well, no. If we didn't exist, we wouldn't be sitting here thinking about all the conditions necessary for us to exist. You see?

Mr November · 04-25-2011, 02:16 PM

Being an atheist who likes to argue, I've made that same point more times than I can count RVCA. And I think I touched on that before in the same post you were quoting.

The difference is - I don't mean special as in chosen or pre-ordained or something. I mean special like a four leaf clover or an eclipse - except an unimaginably more rare event than either of those.

The fact that we DO exist can create the illusion that we exist for a reason. Well we would say the same thing if things had happened totally different and in a whole other place. But the point is - not to let the fact that we do exist create the illusion that we aren't special. Not to let it make us believe that it happens all the time. Because I don't believe that's necessarily true.

04-21-2011, 03:40 PM	#107 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I find ancient alien theories fascinating and to be honest, a lot of religion could be explained by their existence. The one thing I don't like to do, however, is downplay human accomplishment. It is easy to look back and say, "Oh, we were really stupid and primitive back then. There is no way anyone could have come up with that stuff." Wrong. We are just as intelligent as we were 3,000 years ago. There were ancient Einsteins in every ancient civilization. The difference is the WAY we thought. As oojay pointed out, there was no distinction between science and religion. Now there is. People thought differently as little as 100 years ago. They were still just as intelligent as us. So. Go ahead with the AA theories, just please stop trying to use mathematical and technological accomplishment as evidence. Humans have been pretty clever throughout history. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

04-21-2011, 02:54 PM	#105 (permalink)
Sparky not really Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,223	oojay is definitely coming with it. heres some old pictures with aliens in them

04-25-2011, 02:16 PM	#110 (permalink)
Mr November Music Addict Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Halifax, Canada Posts: 429	Being an atheist who likes to argue, I've made that same point more times than I can count RVCA. And I think I touched on that before in the same post you were quoting. The difference is - I don't mean special as in chosen or pre-ordained or something. I mean special like a four leaf clover or an eclipse - except an unimaginably more rare event than either of those. The fact that we DO exist can create the illusion that we exist for a reason. Well we would say the same thing if things had happened totally different and in a whole other place. But the point is - not to let the fact that we do exist create the illusion that we aren't special. Not to let it make us believe that it happens all the time. Because I don't believe that's necessarily true.