Essentially, it is the belief that the existence of a deity is unknowable. Which is exactly where I stand. There are levels of agnosticism, some which lean more towards I belief in something, but I'm firmly in the middle on this.

I don't think many people are really concerned with having a collective voice or even having a label. But by definition, non-believers are atheists. I don't think it's a choice to have that term associated with you or not. It's a word with a definition and it describes non-believers and that's the end of it. The "idea of atheism" is not believing in a higher power, so how is that self-defeating?? I think you see atheists as scumbags or something and have a poor mindset regarding what atheism is. Atheist doesn't imply anti-religion or people who hate those who practice. I'd say that most atheists are probably people like me who just don't care about religion but you seem to be focusing on atheists who are anti-religion and live to bash others. Which ironically is kinda what you are doing.

Agnosticism is not a middle ground between Theism and Atheism. You can be Agnostic and Theistic at the same time. You can also be Agnostic and Atheistic at the same time. Agnosticism concerns knowledge while Theism concerns belief- they are not mutually exclusive.

For further information: Agnosticism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I guess I could consider myself Agnostic then. I believe there might be a higher power. Something out there greater than us but I don't like to follow the structure of any religion.

I wouldn't say it's what I'm doing, cos imo it's perfectly justifiable to "bash" the "bashers" - stance of defense, not aggression.

I don't think all atheists are scumbags, no. I just can't respect the idea, it seems infantile to me. "The grouped of non-group-eds"

For example - the bus ads in the UK. Some Christian group put out an ad saying smething like

"Have faith in God live a good life" etc. your general "We love Jesus" sort of thing

So what do the local "atheist non-theocratic committee of non-commited non-group" group do?

Put out an ad saying

"There is no God. Live your life"

If atheism is not a group, if atheism is not a religion, why would they feel they need to counter a message like that? The goal of atheism ultimatly as a group, which is what it is, is to eradicate all religion.

Maybe individual atheists have no problem with religion, but as a group, that is the main agenda. If they're trying to spread atheism with ads like that, that means they want as many atheists as possible - they want to expand and spread their message. Therefore, they want to eradicate religion, pretty simple man.

If you are how you say, then People like yourself aren't the ones I have a problem with, and I think by calling yourself atheist you're actually allying yourself with something more than just non-believing. So long as people are half-decent, I can respect it if they say "piss off I'm not joining your group I dont believe" - their choice.

I can't respect it if they say, "piss off I'm not joining your group, I'm gonna go join this other group for people who don't wanna be in your group " because they've made it competitive.

It's like making it the "cliques" of the world, thats stupid.

If you don't believe, fine. If you believe different to me, fine.

If you begrude me my belief, thats not fine.


Just as though, I said - don't have a problem with religion, have a problem with the people who corrupt it.

Well same principle; I have no problem with a lack of religion. I have a problem with people who corrupt the non-religious.

atheism is a cult imo.



What is needle exchange, something to do with drugs?

That would explain why they didnt like you helping, but tbh, you gotta look at the bigger picture here man.

If you didnt help them exchange needles, they would get ill, they would spread disease. So they've fallen in a bad way, they're doing drugs and bad ****. But it's up to them to pull themselves out of it, all you can do is guide the lost sheep through the canyon.

What you did was a service to God and Humanity, man. Herding the lost flock. One day, one of those people will get clean maybe, they'll live a decent life, have a family.

That's thanks to you sir. If no-one exchanged the needles, they'd get aids or some **** and be dead in a ditch.

As long as you're not the one actually giving them the drugs, then screw what your Church said, be proud of what you did dude I respect that.



(if on the other hand it wasnt drugs related and it was purely medical needles, then they're a bunch of crazy ****ing ****s what sort of Christians are they)

Haha yes that's exactly what it is. Because there's been a huge AIDS epidemic in DC since the 90s so it's an effort to keep that from spreading partially. Also, a huge part of the programs is to get addicts regularly coming to a clinic with posters and free information on how to get help, rehab, the dangers etc. The ones I know of at least even offer classes to help people stop, or to try to teach them at least of the dangers. And the biggest thing that they do is give people at the bottom of the bottom someone to talk to that genuinely wants to help them, rather than look at them like pieces of **** which sadly I think the vast majority of people do. It's amazing how much you can tell they just need to talk to somebody because, and I heard this so many times, what's the point in quitting when you have nothing or no one? This is a very very personal issue to me as well so I get angry when people go against these programs, and it's pretty much ended in the end of my involvement with organized religious groups. And don't take that wrong, I'm still Christian, I just see it as having my own way of practicing. Because isn't that what religion is pretty much all about? Making the world a better place for everyone? Unless I missed something in Sunday School...

Geddy, I have read that some Jewish people feel the kosher law to kill animals by slitting their throats was originally intended as a way to make slaughter more humane, in keeping with the feeling some view as a Jewish religious law that people should not cause unnecessary suffering to animals: Judaism 101: Treatment of Animals

A question I have that relates to your original post (in which you asked religious people, "What is your level of observance?") is how people decide the degree to which they are observing or following a religion, since following particular religious laws may not fully fulfill the intent of the laws. Which is more important when determining the degree to which you follow or observe a religious law: following the intent of the law, or following the law itself?

For example, if a Jewish person wants to follow kosher laws, should she be following the letter of the law or the intent? If she feels she should follow a law not to cause animals unecessary pain, then should she consider that slaughtering animals by slitting their throats causes them pain that can be reduced or eliminated by rendering the animals unconscious first (Discussion of research that shows that Kosher or Halal Slaughter without stunning causes pain)...even though rendering animals unconscious first violates the kosher law?

Whose level of observance of religious kosher law would be greater...the person who follows the kosher law and eats only animals killed in a kosher way, or a person who violates the kosher law by eating animals rendered unconscious first (so they experience less pain)...or the person who doesn't eat any animals at all (which would naturally be a kosher diet with respect to animals, since meat and dairy would never be mixed)?

Also, since people do not physiologically need to eat animals to remain healthy, a question I have about kosher laws is how people rationalize the slaughtering of animals if they also believe that a religious law prohibits causing unnecessary suffering to animals.

I like this video very much since it explains that atheists include people who lack belief in gods as well as people who believe no gods exist, which are different positions with respect to the question of whether there are dieties.

In a way, you're an atheist too. You deny the existence of all gods except yours.

Does Anubis exist?

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9749/anubisim.jpg

Can you prove Anubis doesn't exist? Why? Is it because a dog cannot be a god? Or maybe because God cannot be a dog? Why not? Or perhaps you elucidate Anubis' existence (or inexistence) according to his supranatural attributes and his role in the context of Ancient Egyptian religion? Or maybe you just assume the Abrahamic dogma that says "God created man in his own image".

We don't have churches. Also, it should be noted that "atheism" is just a blanket term for people who don't believe in gods, it's not any kind of unified set of beliefs.

Irony 101 in this thread.