Paedantic Basterd

Well, none of the vegetarians here are remotely pushy, unless challenged.

Zaqarbal

Concentrating on the particular aspect of cruelty, now I'd like to mention other historical and present "culprits": religions (well, at least some of them), superstitions, false social beliefs, ignorance, lies, lack of education, etc...

Unfortunately, atrocities like the one mentioned in the first post are very old:

Cat-burning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And then and now, one of the causes is the lack of education and culture. For instance, what about wolves? Due to all those traditional and stupid beliefs and lies about wolves, many idiots have inflicted a terrible damage on them for centuries, with an unusual sadism. And many other idiots have minimized its importance because they share the same false beliefs. And even now, in the "age of Internet", it is very difficult to eradicate certain absurd myths, in order to spread the truth and knowledge. Let's say this once and for all: wolves NEVER attack humans. That's a myth. In fact, wild wolves AVOID humans. They fear us. And in captivity... well... just look at this:

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Scarlett O'Hara

Some people here act like vegetarians are similar to believing in God with the respect of how against it you are. If they don't want to eat meat for moral (and other) reasons then let them. I've certainly contemplated becoming one.

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Arya Stark

Yeah I usually don't do this. Mostly because I don't really care what people eat. My think lately is how rude people are is getting to me. And I think it's rude to challenge someone's views if they don't give a **** about what your views are. My view is, I don't care if people eat meat, so leave me the **** alone.
The other day someone was challenging my vegetarianism and I got frustrated because I don't feel any reason to explain it. Curiosity is one thing, but questioning my views is something else entirely.

I don't CARE if it makes a difference. I just don't want to ****ing eat meat.
I don't want to do it. If your view is that everyone's going to die anyway, then eat meat. I don't CARE. I feel like I keep saying one thing and you're arguing something else entirely.

word.

This is a really interesting statement, but I don't understand it, do you think you could explain? I think that you're saying people compare vegetarians to super religious peole but I don't know what "how against it you are" means. I completely agree with you on the rest.



And trust me guys, I'm sure we've all met some annoying people who push their views upon others. I'm not one of those people. I definitely know that Paloma isn't one of those people either. I don't see any reason to argue with vegetarianism with people who don't give a **** what the other side of the argument is. You're not going to make me eat meat by telling me I'm not making a difference. I'm not a vegetarian because I think I'm making a difference. Whether or not the animal is dead isn't the deal for me, I just don't want to be the one consuming it.
You're NOT going to change my mind by showing me how good a burger is. I've had a burger. I know what I'm missing. I know how good it tastes. Guess what. I've not had one for 5 years and I'LL BE OKAY.
You're DEFINITELY not going to change my mind by telling me the reasons why YOU eat meat. I don't give a ****.
Vegetarians who care about these things and vegetarians who get in your face are obnoxious, even to me. So going around thinking that you can group me in with the rest of them is like me grouping you meat eaters in with the people who slaughter the animals and keep them in those disgusting conditions.
I chose to be a vegetarian for my own reasons and I will stick with that until I personally change my mind, if I ever do. And if I do? You won't be able to change my mind either. So I suggest you keep your thoughts to yourself if you're going to try and convince me otherwise. I've probably heard them all before. And most of the reasons, I've heard in 8th grade when I became a vegetarian. You're not creative.

Now if you're curious or something, that's a different story entirely, and I'd love to have a conversation about your reasons for eating or not eating meat for the sake of having an intelligent conversation.

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MB Journal.
Azucar y Especia. My blog.

Double X

I decided to become a vegetarian three weeks ago, in a few months I will make the transition to veganism when I know my body can adjust.

Humans and nonhuman animals are of equal worth. Knowing this, there must be equal rights for both.

If we can test hair products on nonhuman animals, we should also be able to test hair products on infants.

Likewise, if we can put down cats because of expensive medical treatment, we can put down humans for the same reason.

If we can create an industry for raising and murdering cows for food, we can create a similar industry to raise children in tight quarters, to use them for slave labor, and then to kill them when they are in the best condition so others can eat them.

That's why I plan to transition to veganism. It is logically inconsistent to support the meat industry and the rights of humans.

Guybrush

Maybe you feel that way because of this :

"Knowing this", really? The above quote about equal worth doesn't seem logical to me. Humans are closely related genetically, are capable of detailed communication and cooperation with eachother and my well being depends on the well being of/social interactions with other people. I don't feel that the same applies to the pigs we slaughter and really, I've only poked at the tip of the iceberg here. Take into account our an evolutionary history where we have evolved as social animals working together to bring down animals like pigs for food and the whole difference thing becomes even more fundamental.

Why do you think animals and people automatically have the same worth? What kind of moral argument do you base that on?

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Something Completely Different

Double X

Humans and nonhuman animals have the same worth because there is no inherent difference between us. We are both life. What separates apart from intelligence?

A retarded infant is technically dumber than a dolphin. But we would never euthanize a baby, but I'm sure many people wouldn't mind the murder of a dolphin. Intelligence cannot be used to elevate humans about nonhuman animals.

someonecompletelyrandom

So is a lion the same worth as a human also? What about the gazzelle he hunts?
Would you kill a tree to make your shelter? Would you step on a spider crawling to your leg? Being equals as regards the gift of life doesn't have to mean we stop the cycle of life and death.

I agree with what you said about the meat industry, but for different reasons as I can't follow the logic of yours. If man of equal worth to the
Lion, then man's method of "hunting" is equal to the lions. So that means the meat industry us "natural"?

Double X

Sorry I will delete my other post, I think you edited.

The difference in our 'hunting' methods is that lions don't have the capacity or the options in abstaining from meat. The majority of humans, on the other hand, have the capacity to distinguish what is right and the option to abstain from meat and live a healthy life.

My apologies on using the word 'life' so broadly. I believe nonhuman animals should have an equal moral status to that of humans. Assuming this, I feel it is immoral to cause any animal, human or nonhuman, pain.

someonecompletelyrandom

Okay, I understand what you're saying now.