Zaqarbal

Yes, I know that disturbing mental image appearing after reading the Old Testament...


All that you wrote is true. And everything confirms what we atheists and agnostics already knew: religion is a purely HUMAN PRODUCT and it is conditioned and modified by the ups and downs of human life. But in order to clarify my point I have to explain a few things:

The degree of prescription in Quranic texts is higher than that of Biblical writings. Bible can be interpreted in many different ways. That is, Christian moral rules are stated in a more indirect way than the Muslim ones. On the contrary, Quran is composed by direct commands. It supposedly contains God's words, so it is meant to be taken literally. I think this video explains it better than I can:


Islam is something more than a religion. It regulates all aspects of human life. From the prayer to the proper way to eat palm dates (don't laugh; Allah cares for your health and he knows what is the best for you). That's why, certainly, "the problem with Muslim extremists isn't nearly as metaphysical as it is political". Historically speaking, many Christians have been reluctant to accept the separation of church and state, but at least there is a biblical basis for it: "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s".

Thus, both Christianity and Islam have experienced the pass of time and human actions. But due to their distinct original dogmatic structures, they've suffered diverse effects, and the "final products" are different from each other. Since Islam has more rigid fundamentals, the possibilities to modify the values of a Muslim society are more limited. On the contrary, Christianity's flexibility permits a better adaptation to the changing human societies throughout history. From the starting point on, compared to Muslims, Christian leaders have had a wider range of options to choose in order to influence their communities' behaviour. Or, if we see it from a critic point of view (which is the one I share), the "asphyxiation" people suffered decreased little by little.

Imagine a dried branch. Only two things may happen: it remains the same or it gets broken. But a flexible olive branch can be bent in many ways (like those absurd Christian metaphors on pigeons and olive branches). That's the difference.

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KMS

Burn 'em up.

Zaqarbal

I forgot to mention another interesting point. Some may think: "Well, maybe some Quranic verses are a sort of complex metaphors...". No way. French scientist and writer Blaise Pascal tells us why:

330 years ago this guy hit the nail on the head. Look, this is the Paradise according to Quran. What's that? A screenplay for a Tinto Brass' movie or a sacred book? Ibn Warraq callls it a "cosmic brothel". Following Pascal's central idea, we conclude: that clumsiness for the soft porn is not compatible with a supposed talent for refined and hermetic metaphysical poetry, considering that all is part of the same book.

Coming back to the main question (to burn or not to burn), I've found this declaration in favour of freedom of expression:

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someonecompletelyrandom

I was actually going to type more but my browser locked up. I didn't even know I had posted that... Anyway I was going to say something similar to sleepy jack in that terrorism in the name of something you don't believe in doesn't make much sense, so it's not surprising there isn't any atheist terrorist groups. Although there are plenty of violent people who'd kill those who do (Columbine massacre).

Didn't mean to confuse you, sorry about that.

right-track

At least Chamberlain tried.
You can't seriously compare Hitler's Germany and his plans to conquer Europe by armed force with the reaction of extremists to the burning of a book.
You're way out of context.
Nice try though.

Take it from me. The only successful outcome WILL be compromise. With extremists, it's THE only solution.
Unless you have any better ideas?

Zaqarbal

Yep: Sex, drugs and rock n' roll. That is, to "bomb" them with high doses of worldly pleasures in order to counteract that shoddy cosmic brothel. Michel Houellebecq, a French writer, says Islam is doomed because hedonist capitalism is undermining it. And maybe he's right, as some leaders seem to be in desperate need of martyrs. Hamas has just increased the number of virgins in Paradise from 72 to 2.5 million:

Our first attack: inoculate the virus of sinful desires through satellite dishes and the Internet. Webcams will disclose unsuspected secrets... hmmmm "show me more Fatimah... my oil derrick is heating up, baby..."

All market segments should be exploited. Afghanistan needs investments from the gay sex industry. There's a strong potential demand by the Taliban (no joking). Of course the other typical jihadist consumption would be properly satisfied too.

Drugs? No problem.

As regards rock, it looks difficult but they've already started to work hard on it.

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right-track

Would it be too much to ask you to post an answer without googling, or providing links to other websites to support your rhetoric?
It's a bit like reading a wikipedia page on Nonsense.

sleepy jack

What bible have you been reading? Read Leviticus and Exodus. It's very explicit, it doesn't vaguely state that slavery is "okay." It takes it a step farther and explains the logistics of owning a slave, how to properly beat them, as well as the inheritance rules about the "property" you've purchased.

Deuteronomy also not only condones rape, but explains how you should go about dealing with the situation upon raping her. Which is to purchase her, and then force her to be your wife.And let us not forget that whole thing about Lot's daughter in Genesis.

Also, here's some specific, "vague" quotes from the Bible for you, most of which have nothing to do with killing infidels 'cause that's only a Muslim thing.

"Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood." - Jeremiah 48:10

"'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - Leviticus 20:13

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." - Deuteronomy 17:12

"Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord." - Colossians 3:18

"If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through." - Zechariah 13:3

"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." - Leviticus 21:9

I'd also like to note, in your response to your statement that the Bible is somehow less personal in what it suggests then the Qu'ran, that it instructs you on everything from hygiene to dietary choices. The Bible is very restrictive; it's just ignored by most Christians today.

someonecompletelyrandom

^ Just pointing out, quoting from the Hebrew Scriptures (old testiment) is counter productive to any points you might try to make about Christianity because it's basic bible canon that Jesus Christ did away with the old laws of the Jewish Leaders (which included the formal laws and commandments found in the early portions of the books) and taught his followers to worship out of principal. I don't want to debate anything, just giving you a heads up.

sleepy jack

Okay replace Christian with Jews, the argument still stands. The Bible has a bunch of rubbish in it, and people saying the Qu'ran is worse because the Bible is vague about its rubbish clearly haven't looked at the Old Testament very closely.