Church Plans on Burning Qur'an on September 11th

right-track · 09-22-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

Another sign of "decadence" is that we're losing our sense of humor when it comes to religion. But I hope this is only a "temporary phenomenon" and we'll regain our healthy capacity to ease the tension soon.

Before Islamic issues came to our lives (accompanied by the political correctness mafia), we didn't use to dramatize religious affairs. But now we're all too serious, nervous, sometimes even aggresive (at least verbally), and we frequently lose our temper. And that's not good. I miss the "old times", when, for instance, a film director could make a comedy about religion, like Monty Python's Life of Brian or The Meaning of Life.

Incorrect. Monty Python's Life of Brian was slaughtered by the church and condemned as heresy by it's supporters on it's release.
It was almost banned and caused a right old shit storm.
So much for "the old times".
I doubt anyone would even raise an eyebrow if it was released these days.
Unless of course it provoked radical extremist terrorists hell bent on murder. Then it would be an absolutely stupid idea, totally lacking in common sense, provoking religious hatred and incitement to violence to even suggest making such a film. Especially if the film makers were aware of the ensuing carnage prior to filming...if you get my drift.

The only ones who get too serious, sometimes even aggressive and frequently lose their temper, are people like the pastor of which this thread is about.
Then again, some people don't possess the common sense they were born with...if you get my drift.

loveissucide · 09-22-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

I don't really understand hatred towards political correctness. It's clumsy, and often doesn't work sure, but it's better then what we had before. I'm kind of glad society would frown on a white guy walking up to a black family and calling them a bunch of lazy niggers. Maybe that's just me though.

right-track · 09-22-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

I don't really understand hatred towards political correctness. It's clumsy, and often doesn't work sure, but it's better then what we had before. I'm kind of glad society would frown on a white guy walking up to a black family and calling them a bunch of lazy niggers. Maybe that's just me though.

Welcome back, sleepy jack.

Zaqarbal · 09-22-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

Incorrect. Monty Python's Life of Brian was slaughtered by the church and condemned as heresy by it's supporters on it's release.
It was almost banned and caused a right old shit storm.

But the film started to break taboos, and later on The Meaning of Life was very successful. Anyway, that was much less dangerous than Theo van Gogh's life as a film director.

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

I doubt anyone would even raise an eyebrow if it was released these days.

I think there would be some protests (probably not very loud indeed) about Life of Brian, but, what about an hypothetical Life of Muhammad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

Unless of course it provoked radical extremist terrorists hell bent on murder. Then it would be an absolutely stupid idea, totally lacking in common sense, provoking religious hatred and incitement to violence to even suggest making such a film. Especially if the film makers were aware of the ensuing carnage prior to filming...if you get my drift.

I think the mere existence of those terrorists is the problem itself. They don't need any new "excuse" to show their criminal intentions. They will try to kill you anyway. With or without the excuse of a "provocation". A pyromaniac christo-freak show or a simple Danish cartoon published 11 months before are nothing but a cover. My opinion is that a mafia (Al Capone or Al Qaeda) should not determine our life, our moral convictions or our laws. I think that if you're suffering a continous threat from a Hitler, a Stalin or a Bin Laden, your priority should be fight that enemy in order to safeguard your freedom (the same freedom that makes possible an intelligent satire, for example).

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

The only ones who get too serious, sometimes even aggressive and frequently lose their temper, are people like the pastor of which this thread is about.

And funnily his name is Terry Jones, like Life of Brian's director.

It seems to be that Jones is nothing but an insignificant moron, but since some silly journalists have blown this affair out of proportion, he have had his stupid "minutes of fame".

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

Then again, some people don't possess the common sense they were born with...if you get my drift.

Yes, but that should be their problem, not ours. We cannot establish our rules of coexistence according to the threats from those who don't want to obey them. Moreover, each country has its own legal and social rules, and its citizens can't change them just because some fanatics in a remote place of the globe are furious. Especially considering the very different mentality they have. There are some basic common standards amongst Western countries for cultural reasons and because our modern societies are similar. But theocratic islamists in Afghanistan or Iran think in a very different way. Regarding social view of religious matters, that's "another world".

sleepy jack · 09-22-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loveissucide

That's actually exactly the video I was thinking of when writing that post. He's totally right about it too.

sleepy jack · 09-22-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

I think the mere existence of those terrorists is the problem itself. They don't need any new "excuse" to show their criminal intentions. They will try to kill you anyway. With or without the excuse of a "provocation". A pyromaniac christo-freak show or a simple Danish cartoon published 11 months before are nothing but a cover. My opinion is that a mafia (Al Capone or Al Qaeda) should not determine our life, our moral convictions or our laws. I think that if you're suffering a continous threat from a Hitler, a Stalin or a Bin Laden, your priority should be fight that enemy in order to safeguard your freedom (the same freedom that makes possible an intelligent satire, for example).

If the problem is the terrorists themselves, shouldn't you really be blaming the United Nations, Central Intelligence Agency and the West in general? Treating it like their grievances have no legitimacy and that they just popped up out of Muhammad's ass and started bombing, and threatening the West's idea of "freedom" is kind of ignorant imo.

right-track · 09-23-2010, 06:37 AM

^ Agreed.
The only successful end game is compromise.

LOL@Geordies.
BBC News - Men arrested in Gateshead over suspected Koran burning

Zaqarbal · 09-23-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

(...) they just popped up out of Muhammad's ass and started bombing (...)

Believe it or not, that idea (metaphorically expressed) is quite accurate. A potential source of problems exists since a long time ago. It is called Quran:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 4, verse 74

Whoever fights in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 4, verse 76

Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 4, verse 89

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 5, verse 59

Say: O People of the Scripture [Jews and Christians]! Do ye blame us for aught else than that we believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed aforetime, and because most of you are evil-livers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 9, verse 5

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 9, verse 34

O ye who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (men) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 9, verse 73

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sura 9, verse 123

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

Etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

The only successful end game is compromise.

Well, that's one opinion. There are several points of view about the matter. Some people like the "Chamberlain attitude"; on the contrary, other prefer that of Churchill, etc...

Left: Neville Chamberlain reaching a compromise

sleepy jack · 09-23-2010, 08:46 PM

Two problems with that. You can find many similar quotes in the Bible, yet there's no Christian equivalent to al-Qaeda at the moment. Odd. Also, how do you explain the majority of Muslims, who are moderate and against terrorism, if their holy text is telling them they need to be at war with the West? The problem with Muslim extremists isn't nearly as metaphysical as it is political. People who say otherwise are trying to simplify a very complex issue, which is lazy.

RVCA · 09-23-2010, 08:49 PM

No, I think it is pretty simple. The Bible isn't nearly as explicit about killing the infidel as the Quran is. There are plenty of nuts that find their roots in ridiculous things the Bible says (see: Westboro Baptist), but the Quran is quite a bit more vile than the Bible.

All these terrorist bombings are for religion and that's the bottom line. You don't see anyone bombing for atheism or capitalism, do you?

09-23-2010, 06:37 AM	#147 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	^ Agreed. The only successful end game is compromise. LOL@Geordies. BBC News - Men arrested in Gateshead over suspected Koran burning Last edited by right-track; 09-23-2010 at 06:46 AM.

09-23-2010, 08:46 PM	#149 (permalink)
sleepy jack isfckingdead Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18,967	Two problems with that. You can find many similar quotes in the Bible, yet there's no Christian equivalent to al-Qaeda at the moment. Odd. Also, how do you explain the majority of Muslims, who are moderate and against terrorism, if their holy text is telling them they need to be at war with the West? The problem with Muslim extremists isn't nearly as metaphysical as it is political. People who say otherwise are trying to simplify a very complex issue, which is lazy.

09-23-2010, 08:49 PM	#150 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270	No, I think it is pretty simple. The Bible isn't nearly as explicit about killing the infidel as the Quran is. There are plenty of nuts that find their roots in ridiculous things the Bible says (see: Westboro Baptist), but the Quran is quite a bit more vile than the Bible. All these terrorist bombings are for religion and that's the bottom line. You don't see anyone bombing for atheism or capitalism, do you?