Church Plans on Burning Qur'an on September 11th

**Janszoon** · 09-12-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

I've been following the arguments in this thread, and I have something relative to say, but I don't think I'm addressing anyone in particular. More or less, it's my general opinion on this horrendous non-issue.

A few of you have thrown around the idea of "tolerance". But here's the thing: The point is not that hate is bad or that acceptance is good, but whether we're doing so based upon rational reasons. Open-mindedness is only a virtue if it's tempered with wisdom.

I fully support burning the Quran. It's a horrendous, disgusting piece of literature. But then again, I also fully support burning the Bible because it's also horrendously disgusting. Would I ever actually burn either holy book? No. And I certainly wouldn't do it on the anniversary of a national tragedy. The guy is an extremist, and an attention whore. He's an idiot. And everyone who's making such a huge deal out of it is just playing along. They're mafia-wife idiots.

I basically agree with where you're coming from here, but I have to say I have a pretty big issue with people who organize book burnings. To me it's irrelevant whether the book is The Koran or The Catcher in the Rye, the fact of the matter is that throughout history book burnings have been symbolic of censorship, willful ignorance and the desire to erase ideas. While I feel that someone should have the legal right to organize a book burning if they so desire, I think doing so is an affront to anyone who cares about the free exchange of ideas.

Dr.Seussicide · 09-12-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

I'll do you a favor: I won't continue this battle of insults. Your satiric skills are very poor, and I feel sorry for you because you'd probably end up being dialectically sodomized.

BTW, I exaggerated all those things: actually I'm not a know-all, I don't care about your age and I'm not so old (I'm only a few years older than you).

I was only pretending to have an "owerwhelming intelectual superiority" to make you feel ankward, and thus soften that annoying tone of insolent enfant terrible you had (you cannot bug a person that way

). Anyway, now you mentioned you're about to be a chemist, if you're able to make amphetamines I'd be interested to buy them at a good price.

I'm guessing that didn't work out too well now did it? And furthermore, just to clear things up, I'm a Chemical Engineer, not a chemist. I guess you're dumber than I initially thought, which is an astounding feat.

Quote:

My thoughts about what? Maybe you didn't get my point. Let's go back to the beginning:

I mean "to separate" in order to make moral judgements. Perhaps there's a problem with the meaning of respect. I know it's an ambiguous word, but keep in mind that I'm not a native English speaker, and sometimes I can't find the accurate terms. I thought the video would clarify that what I mean better than me (I feel clumsy when writing about meticulous concepts in English). It seems to be that, strictly speaking, respect denotes esteem or a positive feeling. Considering that, and to avoid confusion, we better use a more proper word when talking about people (although we'll keep the word respect regarding ideas). I've thought of tolerate, but according to some definitions tolerance does not necessarily exclude contempt. I can't find a perfect verb for it, but the underlying concept is clear: TO BE CIVIL. That is, to treat him, at least, according to our common minimum ethical values. There are certain minimum standards, and thanks to them people live together as members of the same society. The aim is to express, at least, normalcy, coexistence as usual, lack of conflict or contempt. That there's nothing "anomalous" that could disrupt our life in society.

So, to sum up, the question would be: Is it possible to be civil to someone, and, at the same time, not to respect his ideas (or some of his his ideas)?

Obviously yes. I think nowadays most of the people distinguish between the two concepts: "to be a good citizen" and "to be an atheist, an agnostic, a Christian, a Buddhist, etc."

Edit: "popular wisdom" corroborates my answer: "Live and let live".

Thank you for typing this superfluous depthless paragraph, in the effort to choose a singular word to convey the train of thought you're following.

But, I'll consider you're last few sentences. Of course, it is possible to be civil and at the same time respect other people's ideas. However, I am unaware that burning a religious doctrine has become a civil past time. Maybe this needs to be clarified as I am a bit behind the times. But if all we do, is to "Live and let live", the chaos that would ensue would be counter-productive to a civil society. So, let's be reasonable, nothing about burning a book, can be deemed as civil and neither can it be deemed as respectful. Don't be afraid of that "subjective" terminology, the interpretation with which it is open to is quite simple.

TheBig3 · 09-12-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I basically agree with where you're coming from here, but I have to say I have a pretty big issue with people who organize book burnings. To me it's irrelevant whether the book is The Koran or The Catcher in the Rye, the fact of the matter is that throughout history book burnings have been symbolic of censorship, willful ignorance and the desire to erase ideas. While I feel that someone should have the legal right to organize a book burning if they so desire, I think doing so is an affront to anyone who cares about the free exchange of ideas.

I generally refer back to the President of Iran's debate at Columbia. We shouldn't censor anything, even those advocating for censorship. When the ignorant speak, reason gains a foothold. If I thought this wouldn't kill American's abroad, I would say let him go ahead with it.

Anyone watching that is going to see the ugly ignoraces of his actions. Pastor Jones has said he's never read the Qu'ran, and when the protested in Afghanistan because of this event, he said "this speaks to the true nature of Islam."

Well if this is the case, then Scott Roeder speaks to the true nature of Christians. I think most Americans, and people in general, get his logical fallacies.

RVCA · 09-12-2010, 12:01 PM

"It's understandable at first to sympathize with New Yorkers who argue that a mosque near Ground Zero is insensitive - until you realize that what they're really saying is that all Muslims are like the ones who brought down the Twin Towers. And that's no better than a Muslim in Jakarta insisting that all Christians are like Terry Jones."

What Christians Can Learn from Koran Burner the Rev. Terry Jones - Yahoo! News

Zaqarbal · 09-12-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Seussicide

Thank you for typing this superfluous depthless paragraph, in the effort to choose a singular word to convey the train of thought you're following.

But, I'll consider you're last few sentences. Of course, it is possible to be civil and at the same timerespect other people's ideas.

Wrong. I said "not to respect".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Seussicide

However, I am unaware that burning a religious doctrine has become a civil past time. Maybe this needs to be clarified as I am a bit behind the times. But if all we do, is to "Live and let live", the chaos that would ensue would be counter-productive to a civil society. So, let's be reasonable, nothing about burning a book, can be deemed as civil and neither can it be deemed as respectful. Don't be afraid of that "subjective" terminology, the interpretation with which it is open to is quite simple.

You're damn right, brother!! No one can live with the bloody burning doctrine. I can't stand the smell of doctrine when it burns. Four years ago, someone made a bonfire and put copies of the Avesta on it. All the neighborhood stank of damned burned Zoroastrianism. We couldn't sleep during three days and I thought I was going to die. Man, that was terrible, I had never felt such horror since my niece played with matches and scorch The Spirits' Book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Seussicide

I guess you're dumber than I initially thought, which is an astounding feat.

One thing is absolutely true: It's been very stupid of me wasting my time. FORGET ME.

Dr.Seussicide · 09-12-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

One thing is absolutely true: It's been very stupid of me wasting my time. FORGET ME.

Truth be told, I'm a bit fed up as well. I think I'll take you up on that offer.

EDIT: And yeah, that was a typo. It was supposed to be "not" respect.

Dylanist · 09-12-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqarbal

One thing is absolutely true: It's been very stupid of me wasting my time. FORGET ME.

If you're so certain you're right and want us to forget you, then stop posting.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 09-12-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

I generally refer back to the President of Iran's debate at Columbia. We shouldn't censor anything, even those advocating for censorship. When the ignorant speak, reason gains a foothold. If I thought this wouldn't kill American's abroad, I would say let him go ahead with it.

Anyone watching that is going to see the ugly ignoraces of his actions. Pastor Jones has said he's never read the Qu'ran, and when the protested in Afghanistan because of this event, he said "this speaks to the true nature of Islam."

I completely agree with this. Isn't America supposed to be a Western country with freedom of speech? What happened to those who do not sin may cast the first stone? I'm pretty sure that Pastor would have sinned so what makes him so riotous? I am personally offended by his talk of burning the Qu'ran and I'm Christian. Seriously, something needs to be done, because lives will be at stake here. This is not the way to deal with extremists.

CanwllCorfe · 09-12-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

No, many people think it isn't nice. There would certainly be more constructive ways to express the truth that some Muslims resort to violence very quickly...just like some people of all religions (as well as non-religious people) resort to violence.

I was just joking around

I wanted to come into a thread filled with all these heated discussions and leave an underwhelming statement. Kinda like what I almost posted in the rape topic

"Rape is a bad thing IMO"

Zaqarbal · 09-13-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylanist

If you're so certain you're right and want us to forget you, then stop posting.

Wait, don't mistake me!! That referred exclusively to Dr.Seussicide!! OK, it was my fault, I should have added "with you".

09-12-2010, 12:01 PM	#114 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270	"It's understandable at first to sympathize with New Yorkers who argue that a mosque near Ground Zero is insensitive - until you realize that what they're really saying is that all Muslims are like the ones who brought down the Twin Towers. And that's no better than a Muslim in Jakarta insisting that all Christians are like Terry Jones." What Christians Can Learn from Koran Burner the Rev. Terry Jones - Yahoo! News