CanwllCorfe

I've always thought that as well. It's kinda funny cause we always say, "the world doesn't revolve around you". And if you feel so far removed from everything, suicide would probably just feel as if you're getting rid of the pain. It wouldn't seem like this momentous act that would completely destroy the lives of everyone around you. But I imagine some do commit suicide to do that. Almost like, "you'll miss me when I'm gone". And that's just shitty. I think that would have to be REALLY rare though.

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s_k

Well I don't see it as egoistic in any way.
Being prepared to commit suicide... I think it's a state of mind.

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CanwllCorfe

Wait.. what? I don't think the majority of people who commit suicide are egotistical at all. Quite the opposite. But if someone commited suicide merely to spite the people around them, then that's shitty. Even if they felt unloved or if they had a horrible family, I'd feel slightly better. But if it was PURE spite, then come on now. I have a hard time believing anyone would do that though. That's just horrendous.

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Dirty

People might depend on someone else who is suicidal, but that's not the only reason they don't want them to kill themselves. Which is how you are making it sound. It's someone they care about and want them to succeed in life, not give up. You even said yourself that nobody really wants to die. It isn't selfish to want someone you care about to not kill themselves lol.

As for all these different circumstances, I'll say this... Yes, there are many different circumstances in which someone kills themselves. The poll question just asks if suicide is cowardly, and generally I think it is. With pretty much anything you can find rare or unique circumstances or situations, but in general I do find suicide to be a cowards way out. It isn't JUST about a family either, although I think people who have kids to take care of and commit suicide are the world's ultimate losers and cowards. Even someone who is completely alone in the world is a coward in my book if they choose to kill themselves. They are willing to completely give up and stop trying. If you are depressed, get help. I have been depressed but never suicidal and that's as much as I am willing to talk about it with a group of internet strangers. If you aren't willing to tackle your problems and try to improve then you are a coward to me.

Sansa Stark

What other reasons are these? For their own enjoyments and reasons as I have previously stated, again. More than likely its for reasons like that or for their own peace of mind, and I don't think that anyone should have to do anything that violates their own free will. Yes, obviously I already said that no one wants to die but people in that situation may not see any way to fix their situation other than suicide, which would seem logical TO STOP THE PAIN. It is selfish for you to want someone not to stay alive when they are so miserable, it is not selfish to care about someone and not want them to die. It is selfish not to attempt to lessen the pain that the person in question is feeling, yet expect them to "man up" and deal with things. It is not always that easy and people who act that way are ****s. If your reasoning is how it affects the people left behind, what about the person who was so distraught they felt they had no other way out? Should they live their lives feeling helpless and depressed? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to deal with depression or any mental illness? How hard it is to seek help on your own in a society that both demonises and trivalises mental illness?

Dirty

It was right in front of you the entire time. You even apparently read it. It's someone they care about and want them to succeed in life, not give up. People want their loved ones to be healthy and happy, they want what is best for THEM. Which isn't selfish at all. They want the person to get help, stop being so miserable, and live their lives.

If you are so distraught you think suicide is the best way to go about things, then you need help. I disagree that this society demonizes mental illness. Hell, I know of at least a few places off the top of my head that are designed specifically to help people who are having problems or depressed. If you realize you are depressed and suicidal and don't try to get yourself some help, you are giving up like a coward. There's plenty of places to call, places to go, people to talk to that will help you out. Go to a public library and look up a place if you need to. It's free and takes a couple minutes.

[MERIT]

I was leaning more towards suicide being morrally neutral, rather than cowardly or selfish. But again, physicall, suicide affects no one but the person who kills themself. It's like getting an ugly tattoo. Other people may not want to look at it, but in the end, it's YOUR body and YOUR decision.

But EVERYTHING we do could somehow affect others either mentally or emotionally. We can't control other people's feelings or emotions. If we fretted everytime someone else got sad or upset, we'd all be apathetic losers walking around with our heads down, it would consume our entire lives.

I disagree completely that death is the easy way out. It seems more of a philisophical question of if you value death as much as life. I don't want to spur another religious or philisophical debate, but I personally view death as just another part of life. Both are equally important. And I believe that it takes a million times more courage to step out onto the tracks infront of a moving train and kill yourself than it does to get a minimum wage job so you can flip burgers for the next 50 years, be in debt up to your eyeballs, and wake up every day wishing that you were dead. I'd rather die and feel nothing than live and feel horrible.

I'd bet in hindsight, it wouldn't be quite as a big of a FUCK YOU! as they had hoped

Some people do. If that is what they want, who are we to tell them otherwise? We may be sad, but that is OUR problem.

It is no more cowardly than abandoning your child by getting a divorce and moving away, having no contact with them. The end result would be exactly the same from their perspective.

Paedantic Basterd

I think Paloma has a point, in a way, because if you really think about it, all human relationships are self serving. We are friends with people because they bring us joy, entertainment, comfort, etc. We don't maintain friendships where we fulfill this role, but our effort isn't returned. Family ties are similar, but bogged down by social clauses and emotions. Ultimately, our families serve us in various ways as well, emotional and practical. We desire relationships because of how they benefit our lives.

On another note, I definitely think ''cowardly'' is the wrong word to ascribe to the situation, because ''being brave enough to live'' isn't something that comes into it. Continuing life has nothing to do with bravery, so using the opposing terminology in regards to quitting life just seems inaccurate to me. I'm not brave for being alive, whether I want to be or not. I just wish that these words would stop being brought into a topic that is broader than the emotions they encompass.

As for demonizing illness, specifically depression, society definitely does this. I have been depressed, and admitting it is still rather humiliating to me, as is my behaviour and situation at the time of it. There is enormous stigma about depression and attention seeking, about depression being a state of mind rather than an illness, and heck, there's even an entire stereotype predicated on being unhappy and misunderstood, and it's the laughing stock of the 00s. It's no wonder it's hard to seek help when you believe you will be mocked for what you are feeling.

s_k

I meant to confirm what you said .

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crukster

I agree with what you're saying but I think it's walking a fine line between free will and advocating suicide.

In my opinion, it's not right to want someone to stay alive and be miserable, just so you don't have to carry the weight of their suicide on your conscience, I agree with that. But I don't think it's right either to say it's ok for anyone to kill themselves. No matter how bad things get, as long as you are alive you can fix them. Personally speaking I wouldn't want anyone to fall so low that they think death is the answer to their problem. I think life is important, I think existing is important, if I can help someone fix some trouble they're in, I like to think I would do my best.

If there's someone on the rooftop, waiting to jump, I wouldn't say "get down and man up, stop caring and just live a miserable life, accept things cos it's all youve got" No way I wouldnt say that. If the only choice is death or accepting lameness, then hell I'd kill myself.

But it's not the only choice. You make your own choices.

I'd say "Get down, tell us what the problem is. I bet you my own life there's a way to fix it, I bet you you can keep living and find some joy out of life, make some achievements, you don't need to prematurely end it. Kill what's killing you, don't kill yourself. Pick up the fight and live till you're dead"

Maybe they'd still jump. But what I'm getting at is, if you are going to intervene and stop someone from taking their own life, you have a responsibility to help them help themself get back on their feet. Because where that intention comes from is a Humanic one.

If you don't want people to kill themselves just because it's offensive or socially unacceptable, then you're not actually helping anyone by stopping them jump. You don't care about Life and the Living, you care about the image of living. Thus, don't pretend that you care.

Either you think Life itself is supremely important, or you think something else is. Either you care and you help that person trying to end it. Or you don't, and you let them jump. This is something that has to be absolute. There's no middle ground, there's no concsiencous observing.

You have no right to meddle in what anyone else is doing unless you can offer them a better way, with no strings or no costs.

I think Life is the better way, with no strings or no costs. That's why I would assist someone who's fallen down to a suicidal state.

At the end of the day it's still their own decision to jump. But what I'm talking about are ideas and beliefs that are larger than myself, I'm talking about kinship, brotherhood, Humanism. They're things that I believe form the foundation of my own life, therefore I have a responsibility to uphold them. It's not for any reason or agenda other than protection and advocation of Life.

What more have we got other than Life?

I would die for it if neccessary. But when is suicide ever neccessary? When is there ever a situation where killing yourself is the answer? The actual worst thing that could happen to you by facing your demons is death. So throw the weight outwards, I'd blow everything else up before I killed myself, if neccessary. You are not the root of your problem, you are not the enemy of your own life. Because at the end of the day, the only thing you're sure of is yourself, your existence - your Life.