Depression and suicide

Paedantic Basterd · 04-12-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay

I don't condone it either, but I can understand killing yourself to avoid capture and torture by an enemy (if those were your only 2 choices).

Yes, though, I thought seppuku extended beyond practical reasons and also covered shaming/disobeying one's master, failure, or losing a master?

~~[MERIT]~~ · 04-12-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Yes, though, I thought seppuku extended beyond practical reasons and also covered shaming/disobeying one's master, failure, or losing a master?

You are correct, it does cover other scenarios. I was just using a specific example.

djchameleon · 04-12-2011, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oojay

There's a difference between being whiny and selfish, and being realistic about your situation. Everyone'e scenario is different and unique. Would you rather a person divorce their wife, leave their family, cut all ties from society, and THEN commit suicide? That seems to nullify everyone's claims of "selfishness."

I don't want anyone to commit suicide but that would be better if they did go through all of that so they wouldn't hurt their immediate family as much but even if they did cut all ties from society they still have extended family members that care about them so it would still be a selfish act.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 04-12-2011, 01:25 PM

Honestly, since I have dealt with and attempted to console a lot of suicidal people (although I am certainly not going to pretend I am a professional), and I don't think it's selfish anymore. Having been there myself, I can sympathise and also know that no one really wants to die, so it should be obvious what they really want is for their pain to stop. If someone is in so much emotional pain that they want to completely end their life, something so precious and short and unpredictable, it's completely understandable.

~~[MERIT]~~ · 04-12-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I don't want anyone to commit suicide but that would be better if they did go through all of that so they wouldn't hurt their immediate family as much but even if they did cut all ties from society they still have extended family members that care about them so it would still be a selfish act.

I just completely disagree that suicide is selfish beacause it hurts other people's feelings. Divorce is hard on the whole family. Paying bills and making ends meet is stressful for the family. Arguments can cause distress for everyone. There are soooooo many things that can emotionally affect other people, but cannot be categorized as 'selfish' or 'cowardly.' Again, since when is free will considered selfish?

djchameleon · 04-12-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Honestly, since I have dealt with and attempted to console a lot of suicidal people (although I am certainly not going to pretend I am a professional), and I don't think it's selfish anymore. Having been there myself, I can sympathise and also know that no one really wants to die, so it should be obvious what they really want is for their pain to stop. If someone is in so much emotional pain that they want to completely end their life, something so precious and short and unpredictable, it's completely understandable.

Okay, I can see your point and your side of things but we will have to agree to disagree because I have also attempted myself and I now realize that I was being selfish even though I don't have a wife/kids.

I saw my selfishness on a bigger level. You know like how you walk by a stranger in the morning and you say "good morning" they may have a better day because a stranger said that to them. If I killed myself then I wouldn't be able to say that to that person and they may go on to do something even worse and be in a bad mood or something along those lines. So I was being selfish to society as a whole by wanting to kill myself because just my existence in life may help someone else.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 04-12-2011, 02:24 PM

I think oojay's right though
how can free will be considered selfish?

djchameleon · 04-12-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

I think oojay's right though
how can free will be considered selfish?

what?

that's almost like saying that no one should take responsibility for their actions at all whatsoever because it's free will.

suicide is selfish because it affects others around them. The person that wants to commit suicide is dealing with so much pain that they want to just escape and end it all. That's the easy way out. People deal with so much **** in their life on a daily basis. Don't you think they want to take the easy way out and end it all? but no! they have the courage to push through all the **** that life is dealing them at that one point in time instead of taking the cowardly way out and shoving off their responsibilities onto their loved ones.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 04-12-2011, 02:38 PM

If you are in so much pain that you want to end your life, I would think it more selfish for people to want you to stay alive for their own enjoyment and purposes

s_k · 04-12-2011, 03:30 PM

Oh I should have said that. That's so true

.
Thanks Plum!

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04-12-2011, 03:30 PM	#350 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	Oh I should have said that. That's so true . Thanks Plum! __________________ Click here to see my collection

04-12-2011, 01:25 PM	#344 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	Honestly, since I have dealt with and attempted to console a lot of suicidal people (although I am certainly not going to pretend I am a professional), and I don't think it's selfish anymore. Having been there myself, I can sympathise and also know that no one really wants to die, so it should be obvious what they really want is for their pain to stop. If someone is in so much emotional pain that they want to completely end their life, something so precious and short and unpredictable, it's completely understandable.

04-12-2011, 02:24 PM	#347 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	I think oojay's right though how can free will be considered selfish?

04-12-2011, 02:38 PM	#349 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	If you are in so much pain that you want to end your life, I would think it more selfish for people to want you to stay alive for their own enjoyment and purposes