that's the entire point of contention though...

you wouldn't end up with a life sentence if you didn't deny pleasure and positive experiences from others for your own gain, you wouldn't end up in that situation if you didn't repeatedly victimize people and their existences (from a Canadian perspective and not counting the 1 in a million chance of being wrongfully convicted).

so now because YOU would be on the verge of having limitations put on your existence and your opportunities for happiness it's OK to consider suicide?

consider this piece of garbage - Robert Pickton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

he WILL be jailed for life. so now it's OK for him to start considering suicide and avoiding facing punishment for his action? because he won't be able to enjoy the positivity and pleasure of killing women on his farm anymore? he won't get to enjoy sick jollies of selling meat from the victims back to the community (if rumors are to be believed). boo hoo :(

of course life sentence prisoners consider suicide, the point of the life sentence is for the pieces of living garbage to experience the denial of positivity and pleasure they forcibly took from their victims. their continued victimized existence serving as a reminder to the society of what will happen to people who would consider repeating their actions.

seriously, you guys are talking like getting a life sentence just kind of happens, like 'oh geez, i got the flu last week, then i did groceries yesterday, now i got a 25 year jail sentence, talk to you guys later!'

^ There are other perspectives on justice than your own. And for the record, I merely would understand why someone would go through with it if they were facing a life sentence as we have described, I wasn't discussing or even giving an opinion on what I feel is right or wrong in that scenario.

Also, you're making the mistake of assuming that someone who obviously didn't care for others rights would care if his/her checking out prior to experiencing a piece of what they did met the standard of justice in the majority's eyes. They wouldn't, they're obviously extremely selfish to begin with.

You can't say you wouldn't understand in full why they'd do it and how it's very different from a suicide over something fixable(which is attributed to pure weakness and therefore very hard to respectfully understand) and in putting yourself in their shoes, wouldn't consider the option yourself.

If you were facing this, would you... or expect another facing it to consider moral justice as a deciding factor?

Besides, if that piece of garbage did off himself, it'd save a little on the economic things. Maybe the western world should re-think things and give suicide as an option if dealt a life sentence, the economic waste on housing an otherwise now useless waste of resources is too great for old world views on justice. There is a reason why eye for an eye became outdated.

yes, it is perfectly okay for him to consider suicide and he should not be denied the option of doing so; if anything he should be provided with that option, as should all life sentence inmates.

the way i see it, you can look at their sentence two ways: either 1. they have to be punished for their action and live without even the option to stop living; or 2. they need to be removed from general society so as to not cause harm to others. the former is sadism of the highest degree, while the latter is simply practicality. notice they are removed from general society anyways if they are dead, so why not let them commit suicide? not only that but if they do, no one has to support their existence with shelter, food, clothing et cetera. the only reason to support life imprisonment is the victim's cruel - although animalistic, no less understandable - desire for revenge. as if somehow locking the person up would fix what happened.

Agreed, jail has never been about 'punishment' rather than making the rest of society feel more comfortable by removing dangerous people. Not to mention there's the whole problem of overcrowded prisons right now...

mr. dave seems to be under the false assumption that the world is a righteous place, that everything works out right and everyone feels the same way and has the same morals as he does.

As for that Mr. Pickton he linked to, the only reason I see to keep him alive is to study his behavior to better understand sociopaths and the like. Otherwise, you risk a possible escape (a la Ted Bundy) from jail. After all, it's not like his 'life-term' years in prison will make him a reformed citizen, unless you're counting the after-life.

No, in reality hardly anyone is actually staying on topic with the question. The question is whether it's selfish to commit suicide in any circumstance. Yes, it's selfish to kill yourself because you want to avoid a life long prison sentence that you were given for serious crimes you commited.

And to whoever posted a response to me before, I'm not going into any sort of moral argument on this, I'm just saying that it is indeed selfish because you are doing something drastic for yourself at the pain of others. I was just answering the question asked. And to note, I don't think it's cowardly, depression is a mental health disorder that's just sometimes too strong.

suicide isnt cowardly, imo.

Didn't you say in another thread that you cut yourself?

Labelling suicide as selfish is just lazy thinking. Every individual suicide has a multitude of reasons behind it, and when a society perpetuates an attitude of ''Sucide is selfish, mental illness is weird'', then yes, people who are depressed are going to think ''Why bother discussing my suicidal feelings with anyone? They'll either label me as ill or selfish''. Then the living wonder why victims of suicide didn't talk about it when they were alive. :usehead:

Or they won't believe them and label them as an attention seeker.

Another very dangerous thing to do, because you never know. Suicide can also be used as a manipulation by the truly devious. ''I'll kill myself if you leave me'' etc. But it should be noted that both attention seeking and manipulative behaviours usually have roots in some kind of mental or personality disorder, and suicide is always a possibility, even in those cases. Labelling someone as an attention seeker is dangerous - not to be confused with 'attention seeking behaviour', and every human has that to a degree. When it's pathological, it's usually a symptom of a deeper issue.