VEGANGELICA

I don't know if they still have mandatory home-ec class in middle school, Paloma, but back in MY ancient day, we had a mandatory sewing class and a mandatory cooking class. The cooking class was pretty depressing, looking back at it (and trying to relate this post to depression), because the vegetarian in me cringes now at what they had us make.

For example, we had a whole section on jello, and lucky me, I got put in a group that had to make...tuna fish jello. Yes. I will repeat that. Tuna fish jello! It still boggles my mind that anyone ever thought of combining tuna and jello, and thought that this dubious cooking skill should be passed on to the next generation.

However, I did also learn (1) to wash eggs before use, which is good advice, IF I ATE EGGS, and (2) to turn pot handles IN toward the stove so you can't knock the pots off. That really is very good advice that I use to this day.

And if you give me an orange, I can cut it into a little basket with a handle, hollow it out, and fill it with fruit cocktail. Thank you, oh midwestern home-ec class, for teaching me the important life skill of turning fruit into baskets!

Now...back to depression and suicide...

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TheBig3

I don't know how old you could possibly be. We had home economics in middle school for half the year, and the other half was woodshop.

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I've moved to a new address

music_phantom13

I'm a little surprised at the results, I don't see how suicide can be considered not selfish. You're ending your life here on earth for whatever reason, and doing it solely for yourself. The only situation I could imagine it not being a selfish gesture would be doing it for someone else when you think your situation is horrible enough that it will never get better and you can help someone else (for example, sometimes people do it for life insurance, and that's definitely not a selfish reason). But I still voted yes, because 99% of the time you're doing it because other people are being hurt by a decision you make that effects many people in a bad way. I'm not trying to downplay how bad depression can be, or say people that commit suicide are weak or cowardly and I've been effected like many of you I'm sure. As for the disease argument, I'd make the same statement about alcoholism ad drug addiction. Yes it's a disease, but millions of people have conquered it before. If your an alcoholic or drug addict and you drink or do drugs instead of paying attention to your children, for example, regardless of how difficult it is not to you're making a selfish decision to go the easier route.

TheCunningStunt

Living for somebody elses benefit is hardly living, you're still fucking miserable. Your life, your right to end it. I think the poll is quite interesting though. I thought no would be the minority.

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Last FM

Davey Moore

Well, I don't know if people here would think I'd be a coward, and to a certain extent I really don't give a **** about what people here think of it, especially if they don't have clinical depression, but the only reason I HAVEN'T committed suicide is because of my family. I would never do that to them.

It doesn't help the depression though, and the medicine never helped either. So it's really ****ty living in the state I live in. I've gone to so much therapy, have had so many anti-depressants shoved down my throat, and they usually have a three or four month honeymoon period before it creeps back into my skull, regardless of what I take.

But the thought of living like this for forty or fifty years is terrifying and even more depressing. But I'll keep on for a while.

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The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.

Thrice

Same here, I have a family that relies on me to put food on the table. I took out a $250k life insurance policy last month and was just committed last tuesday for a week. Along with what you said, there is a period where life is bearable, then I slowly slip into being overwhelmed and hit rock bottom. If I make it through the low, then its back to square one with the knowledge of what is to come. I have been dual diagnosed with manic depression/bipolar disorder and a substance abuse problem (depressants of all things). I feel that I cant go through with it, so I set myself up for failure. I lead an extremely risky life with no fear or remorse other than bringing hardship and pain upon the people that love me. No one had any idea, until I ended up in the looney bin 8 states away.

I have never cut myself or let anyone know how I felt until just recently because it has come to a point where I feel I cannot handle it alone. I am my own worst enemy. The last thing I want is sympathy/pity or people even knowing how I feel.

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Lew Harrison, who looked like an anarchist with his red eyes and fierce black beard, had been writing furiously in one corner of the room. "That's good—happiness by the kilowatt," he said. "Buy your happiness the way you buy light."

VEGANGELICA

I agree that requiring others to stay alive for *our* pleasure and to prevent *our* loneliness is somewhat selfish. If people say suicide is selfish, then they should at least recognize their own desires and expectations for the depressed person are partly selfish, too.

I feel each person has a right to decide her own fate. Suicide shouldn't be illegal, for example. Still, I'd intervene as best I could and try to stop a person from killing herself or himself, since I know frames of mind can shift for the better! It's an interesting question, though...when would you let a loved-one go? How much harm do you let a person do to himself before you try to intervene? It reminds me of the movie The Big Blue, in case you've watched that.

Yes to everything you said, Goblin!

Thrice, I have a loved-one who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and psychotic tendencies (delusions), and so I've seen what a devastating effect a mental disorder can have on someone's life and the lives of family members. So, I'm glad you are able to get help.

The person in my life kept the diagnosis secret for years...but this led to problems because I didn't recognize symptoms such as odd stories and life accounts for what they probably were: paranoia and skewed perceptions. If I'd known what was going on, I could have helped give feedback to the person to say whether I felt the medication was working or not...before it got to the stage where it wasn't working well enough.

When you say you are your own worst enemy, this reminds me of what I've imagined may be hardest when you have been diagnosed with a mental disorder: the feeling or fear that you can't trust yourself to perceive reality correctly or respond to situations in a prudent or carefully thought-out way. That must be frustrating to feel you are your own worst enemy.

On the issue of suicide: I've found that some people are hesitant to talk openly about suicide with people who are depressed, as if that would make them decide to kill themselves when the opposite is true. Many people who are depressed or diagnosed with bipolar disorder think about killing themselves. Being able to talk about that is supposed to be a good way to help prevent oneself from doing it. So, I'm glad you are at least talking here about what is going on in your life, Thrice, since it sounds like you have a lot to handle right now.

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midnight rain

I think this is a two-sided argument.

On one hand, it's selfish for the suicidal person to leave behind people who care about the person. On the other, it's kind of selfish for those who care to expect the person to stick around solely for their own benefit.

KMS

No, it's not cowardly. Checking out takes balls. It is very selfish in situations where you're leaving a mess behind for others, but everything we do, no matter how kind, if self motivated in some way to begin with.

I personally think that suicide is stupid unless you have to escape from an unbearable situation such as incurable, agonizing pain and suffering, or a life in prison sentence... anything that can be mentally conquered otherwise is a waste of a life if the person can't figure out how to solve the problem, especially if the person is intelligent and talented.

mr dave

that bold part is BY FAR the LEAST tolerable excuse for suicide i've ever read. if you're being sent to prison for life you shouldn't have an option to circumvent facing the results of your actions. fock that.

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i am the universe