SIRIUSB

Studies by J. Michael Bailey and K.J. Zucker have found that a majority of gay men and lesbians report being gender-nonconforming during their childhood years.
Richard C. Friedman, argues that sexual desire begins later, not in infancy but between the ages of 5 and 10 and is not focused on a parent figure but on peers. As a consequence, he reasons, homosexual men are not abnormal, never having been sexually attracted to their mothers anyway.

TheBig3

Me take it easy? I'm not the one overreacting. I just want to make clear that you are defending pedophilia.

And I don't know where I said I know everyones feelings, but I do know that I said the only way you can believe that someone who is 13 has a grip on reality is if you're 13. Teenagers have the sexual wherewithal of an infant.

God, everyone around here lately is super sensitive.

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I've moved to a new address

Sansa Stark

Yes, it is a fetish because it sexualises something that is not a sexual object, ie, children who are not sexual beings as they have not reached sexual maturity. Sexualising children makes them objects.

I don't know what you know about psychology but I'm pretty sure you're wrong about what they think about fetishism.

Sansa Stark

What does "gender non-conforming" have to do with sexual orientation....

Guybrush

Now you're just doing it wrong. For your analogy to work, you would have to construct the sentence like this :

"if you (HHB f.ex) are diabetic, you shouldn't eat too much sugar"

That's basically the way my first sentence was constructed. When it says "(HHB f.ex)", that clearly indicates an example of a person who might be diabetic. There's nothing there that states you are, just like there's nothing in the first sentence that says you feel a specific way.

Anyways, why not debate semantics? It's not like you've responded or commented much on the more serious arguments in my posts, for example on morality or the fact that any large and healthy population of humans will have a gay minority.

edit :

If people who turn out to be gay do not conform to gender associated behaviours in very early childhood, that indicates those children are gay (differing in behaviour from heterosexuals) before they experience sexual attraction. Basically, it just strengthens the notion that gay people at large don't choose to be gay; rather they are born that way.

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Something Completely Different

TheBig3

Who was this directed at.

Also, I don't know that that is the definition of "fetish" and further more, you might be technically correct, but the social collateral that statement brings with it is going to look really bad. I'd avoid making that statement IRL.

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I've moved to a new address

Thom Yorke

I'm not defending it at all. Literally the only thing I'm arguing with you about is that you said it's always torture for the child, which seems to be based on isolated cases of you working with children that have been molested. I realize most teenagers don't have strong enough grip on reality to consent to it that young, but I disagree with you saying all of them don't. I don't know if we're just arguing semantics or if you actually think there's not one teenager mature enough to deal with it.

And by take it easy, I mean get off your high horse. You're passing off things no one would have any way of knowing as facts yet are still somehow trying to maintain that Socratic image of "true knowledge is that you know nothing". You can have an argument without trying to impress.

Sansa Stark

It was at Siriusb. What do you mean about "social collateral"? What exactly makes what I said look bad?

SIRIUSB

Gender nonconformity is a phenomenon in which pre-pubescent children do not conform to expected gender-related sociological or psychological patterns, and/or identify with the opposite gender.

Typical behavior among those who exhibit the phenomenon includes but is not limited to a propensity to cross-dress, refusal to take part in activities conventionally thought suitable for the gender and the exclusive choice of play-mates of the opposite sex.

Multiple studies have correlated childhood gender non-conformity with eventual gay/bisexual and trans-gender outcomes.

One study found a high incidence of gay males self-reporting gender-atypical behaviors in childhood, such as having little interest in athletics and preferring to play with dolls. The same study found that mothers of gay males recalled such atypical behavior in their sons with greater frequency than mothers of heterosexual males. Nevertheless, not all gay/bisexual men exhibit especially feminine characteristics, and not all feminine men identify as gay/bisexual.

Sansa Stark

It's not a "phenomenon". Children have gender roles inflicted on them, otherwise they just explore what looks fun. It's what children do until someone tells them it's wrong. And just because you played with dolls when you were a child (if you're a man), doesn't mean you're going to be gay, at all. I was very tomboyish when I was young, yet I'm a heterosexual, so where are you getting this bull**** from? Either way, gender doesn't have much to do with sexual orientation at all.