The problems with homosexuality

TheBig3 · 10-17-2010, 09:55 PM

I think the problem with homosexuality is that those preaching tolerance, and those preaching morals (and claiming it stands against good moral principle) are playing different games, to use a metaphor.

To start from the beginning, and I'm talking about Marriage Equality here, is that what we're all playing for here is bigger than homosexuals, and the homosexual community. What the arrangement is, is that there isn't a reason we ought to tell two consenting adults what they can or cannot do if it doesn't affect anyone else.

Beyond this, we should create laws that discriminate Group A's contract from Group B's. This isn't just my opinion, here in America this happens to be law. And not just one session of Congress. Because it was an Amendment to the Constitution, both chambers of Congress, the Executive, and 3/4ths of the then 39 states (at least) said "yes, we're not going to say any law is good for one person, but not another."

There may be a few that see my clinical, legalistic approach as a little too callous and dehumanized, but this is what I meant by "two different games."

When you opt for a non-reasonable, non-logical approach, more specifically when you approach it on an emotional basis, you're going to find an unwinable argument. There isn't a opinions on the opposing side, its the word of those people's creator. That's fine as far as I'm concerned, but it does me the smarmy, liberal approach, which does more to trivialize the cause than promote it, needs to be tossed. Heres an example:

Who does this help, honestly? Aside from the 18-24 demographic who I'm sure thinks that's hilarious, I'm sure this turned off some people who are generally in favor of Marriage Equality. I don't mean they have turned against it because of this video, but I do think many who put their efforts into the struggle looked at that and thought it was in poor taste.

In the end, this is where the disparity is. The wing-nuts on the right aren't generally social conservatives. They tend to be libertarian and even if they were going to be snarky about this issue, it wouldn't be in opposition. If you're going to change hearts and minds on this issue, you're going to need to be more reasonable. We're not going to convince anyone who thinks God is against Gay Marriage to embrace it, but the rational argument that the law is the law, not for when we agree on something but for when we don't, can change the minds of those who are willing to be reasonable. There are still too many baby-boomers, Reagan Democrats who were raised in Immigrant homes but can see the logic that are still voting against it because of the trivial nature of some arguments.

We need to treat this inequality with the gravity is should be given. If this were segregation, or women's suffrage, I doubt we'd be making the same sort of ridiculous - pointless - videos.

And this, for what my opinion is worth - is the problem with homosexuality.

Consolator · 10-17-2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

I think the problem with homosexuality is that those preaching tolerance, and those preaching morals (and claiming it stands against good moral principle) are playing different games, to use a metaphor.

To start from the beginning, and I'm talking about Marriage Equality here, is that what we're all playing for here is bigger than homosexuals, and the homosexual community. What the arrangement is, is that there isn't a reason we ought to tell two consenting adults what they can or cannot do if it doesn't affect anyone else.

Beyond this, we should create laws that discriminate Group A's contract from Group B's. This isn't just my opinion, here in America this happens to be law. And not just one session of Congress. Because it was an Amendment to the Constitution, both chambers of Congress, the Executive, and 3/4ths of the then 39 states (at least) said "yes, we're not going to say any law is good for one person, but not another."

There may be a few that see my clinical, legalistic approach as a little too callous and dehumanized, but this is what I meant by "two different games."

When you opt for a non-reasonable, non-logical approach, more specifically when you approach it on an emotional basis, you're going to find an unwinable argument. There isn't a opinions on the opposing side, its the word of those people's creator. That's fine as far as I'm concerned, but it does me the smarmy, liberal approach, which does more to trivialize the cause than promote it, needs to be tossed. Heres an example:

Who does this help, honestly? Aside from the 18-24 demographic who I'm sure thinks that's hilarious, I'm sure this turned off some people who are generally in favor of Marriage Equality. I don't mean they have turned against it because of this video, but I do think many who put their efforts into the struggle looked at that and thought it was in poor taste.

In the end, this is where the disparity is. The wing-nuts on the right aren't generally social conservatives. They tend to be libertarian and even if they were going to be snarky about this issue, it wouldn't be in opposition. If you're going to change hearts and minds on this issue, you're going to need to be more reasonable. We're not going to convince anyone who thinks God is against Gay Marriage to embrace it, but the rational argument that the law is the law, not for when we agree on something but for when we don't, can change the minds of those who are willing to be reasonable. There are still too many baby-boomers, Reagan Democrats who were raised in Immigrant homes but can see the logic that are still voting against it because of the trivial nature of some arguments.

We need to treat this inequality with the gravity is should be given. If this were segregation, or women's suffrage, I doubt we'd be making the same sort of ridiculous - pointless - videos.

And this, for what my opinion is worth - is the problem with homosexuality.

Agreed. That video made me cringe. Insulting people is no way to change their mind. It may be obvious for us, but it isn't for some.

Arya Stark · 10-18-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

I think the problem with homosexuality is that those preaching tolerance, and those preaching morals (and claiming it stands against good moral principle) are playing different games, to use a metaphor.

To start from the beginning, and I'm talking about Marriage Equality here, is that what we're all playing for here is bigger than homosexuals, and the homosexual community. What the arrangement is, is that there isn't a reason we ought to tell two consenting adults what they can or cannot do if it doesn't affect anyone else.

Beyond this, we should create laws that discriminate Group A's contract from Group B's. This isn't just my opinion, here in America this happens to be law. And not just one session of Congress. Because it was an Amendment to the Constitution, both chambers of Congress, the Executive, and 3/4ths of the then 39 states (at least) said "yes, we're not going to say any law is good for one person, but not another."

There may be a few that see my clinical, legalistic approach as a little too callous and dehumanized, but this is what I meant by "two different games."

When you opt for a non-reasonable, non-logical approach, more specifically when you approach it on an emotional basis, you're going to find an unwinable argument. There isn't a opinions on the opposing side, its the word of those people's creator. That's fine as far as I'm concerned, but it does me the smarmy, liberal approach, which does more to trivialize the cause than promote it, needs to be tossed. Heres an example:

Who does this help, honestly? Aside from the 18-24 demographic who I'm sure thinks that's hilarious, I'm sure this turned off some people who are generally in favor of Marriage Equality. I don't mean they have turned against it because of this video, but I do think many who put their efforts into the struggle looked at that and thought it was in poor taste.

In the end, this is where the disparity is. The wing-nuts on the right aren't generally social conservatives. They tend to be libertarian and even if they were going to be snarky about this issue, it wouldn't be in opposition. If you're going to change hearts and minds on this issue, you're going to need to be more reasonable. We're not going to convince anyone who thinks God is against Gay Marriage to embrace it, but the rational argument that the law is the law, not for when we agree on something but for when we don't, can change the minds of those who are willing to be reasonable. There are still too many baby-boomers, Reagan Democrats who were raised in Immigrant homes but can see the logic that are still voting against it because of the trivial nature of some arguments.

We need to treat this inequality with the gravity is should be given. If this were segregation, or women's suffrage, I doubt we'd be making the same sort of ridiculous - pointless - videos.

And this, for what my opinion is worth - is the problem with homosexuality.

Eh, but you're always going to have the people who cross the boundaries and make the cause switch from something truthful and life-changing to something pretty obnoxious.
I remember there was a riot of gay people that went into a church during mass and just trashed everything. Apparently the church never even said anything against gay marriage. They were attacked because they were a church.
Isn't that exactly what gays are supposed to be fighting AGAINST? Hate because of stereotypes and prejudice?

anyway, there are always going to be some *******s trying to cross the boundaries. I don't really like the idea of having young children cursing all over the place. I get it, you have two moms, stand up for it in a better way.

~~Dirty~~ · 10-19-2010, 12:06 AM

I think it's sooo over thought to be honest. Like it's always a scandalous thing if someone comes out of the closet.. or a gay couple wants to get married. I'm a straight dude and I just dont get it.. My feelings are WHO CARES? and those who DO care.. WHY do you care so much? Just mind your own business. Gays aren't corrupting anything. They just wanna be happy, let em get married if they want to.

Being gay isnt a choice and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. I can't just choose to like guys if i wanted to. I'm turned on by hott chicks. Some men are turned on by hott guys. I don't understand it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, just different. I don't understand why being gay is even a big deal to be honest. Like people feel ashamed for it and I don't understand that. The only people who make fun of people for being gay are high school kids and other immature people.

I live in a dorm with a straight dude and we live beside and share a bathroom with a gay dude. He's a funny guy and has been cool so far, just different. No reason not to respect others peoples lifestyles

TheBig3 · 10-20-2010, 11:57 AM

Well right, its going to be phased out as the generations march on, but thats not what we're discussing. Theres still a solid segment of the population that "just doesn't prefer it, just thinks its not right."

They tack on "children" to make it sound like something we need to move against (another reason that video ruins the cause) and they vote from there. The point is, its a serious issue. As an American, you ought to believe that two consenting people have the right to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't trample on other peoples rights.

On that founding principle alone we're a virtuous nation. Its why people still come here despite all other ills. its not something to trivialize because you don't understand the opposition, and its not something to take for granted.

As I said, we have these laws for when things are difficult, for when a group is oppressed. Not for when its easy and we all agree on it.

bugsy2301 · 10-26-2010, 11:29 PM

Ah, the FCKH8 campaign. So unnecessary.

Toao · 11-10-2010, 09:44 PM

I think the biggest problem with homosexuals are the one's that know they are gay deep down inside, but can't face the reality. And so they beat them up, or rant about how evil it is.

Besides, something like 80% of gay men are born that way. The rest just get sucked into it.

RVCA · 11-11-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toao

Besides, something like 80% of gay men are born that way. The rest just get sucked into it.

Arya Stark · 11-11-2010, 12:17 AM

lolwut.

anticipation · 11-11-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toao

I think the biggest problem with homosexuals are the one's that know they are gay deep down inside, but can't face the reality. And so they beat them up, or rant about how evil it is.

Besides, something like 80% of gay men are born that way. The rest just get sucked into it.

i remember my first day on earth too.

10-17-2010, 09:55 PM	#491 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	I think the problem with homosexuality is that those preaching tolerance, and those preaching morals (and claiming it stands against good moral principle) are playing different games, to use a metaphor. To start from the beginning, and I'm talking about Marriage Equality here, is that what we're all playing for here is bigger than homosexuals, and the homosexual community. What the arrangement is, is that there isn't a reason we ought to tell two consenting adults what they can or cannot do if it doesn't affect anyone else. Beyond this, we should create laws that discriminate Group A's contract from Group B's. This isn't just my opinion, here in America this happens to be law. And not just one session of Congress. Because it was an Amendment to the Constitution, both chambers of Congress, the Executive, and 3/4ths of the then 39 states (at least) said "yes, we're not going to say any law is good for one person, but not another." There may be a few that see my clinical, legalistic approach as a little too callous and dehumanized, but this is what I meant by "two different games." When you opt for a non-reasonable, non-logical approach, more specifically when you approach it on an emotional basis, you're going to find an unwinable argument. There isn't a opinions on the opposing side, its the word of those people's creator. That's fine as far as I'm concerned, but it does me the smarmy, liberal approach, which does more to trivialize the cause than promote it, needs to be tossed. Heres an example: Who does this help, honestly? Aside from the 18-24 demographic who I'm sure thinks that's hilarious, I'm sure this turned off some people who are generally in favor of Marriage Equality. I don't mean they have turned against it because of this video, but I do think many who put their efforts into the struggle looked at that and thought it was in poor taste. In the end, this is where the disparity is. The wing-nuts on the right aren't generally social conservatives. They tend to be libertarian and even if they were going to be snarky about this issue, it wouldn't be in opposition. If you're going to change hearts and minds on this issue, you're going to need to be more reasonable. We're not going to convince anyone who thinks God is against Gay Marriage to embrace it, but the rational argument that the law is the law, not for when we agree on something but for when we don't, can change the minds of those who are willing to be reasonable. There are still too many baby-boomers, Reagan Democrats who were raised in Immigrant homes but can see the logic that are still voting against it because of the trivial nature of some arguments. We need to treat this inequality with the gravity is should be given. If this were segregation, or women's suffrage, I doubt we'd be making the same sort of ridiculous - pointless - videos. And this, for what my opinion is worth - is the problem with homosexuality. __________________ I've moved to a new address

10-20-2010, 11:57 AM	#495 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	Well right, its going to be phased out as the generations march on, but thats not what we're discussing. Theres still a solid segment of the population that "just doesn't prefer it, just thinks its not right." They tack on "children" to make it sound like something we need to move against (another reason that video ruins the cause) and they vote from there. The point is, its a serious issue. As an American, you ought to believe that two consenting people have the right to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't trample on other peoples rights. On that founding principle alone we're a virtuous nation. Its why people still come here despite all other ills. its not something to trivialize because you don't understand the opposition, and its not something to take for granted. As I said, we have these laws for when things are difficult, for when a group is oppressed. Not for when its easy and we all agree on it. __________________ I've moved to a new address

10-26-2010, 11:29 PM	#496 (permalink)
bugsy2301 Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Torquay, UK Posts: 54	Ah, the FCKH8 campaign. So unnecessary. __________________ She's not sure if you're a boy or a girl... Le Last.FM

10-19-2010, 12:06 AM	#494 (permalink)
~~Dirty~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: USA Posts: 981	I think it's sooo over thought to be honest. Like it's always a scandalous thing if someone comes out of the closet.. or a gay couple wants to get married. I'm a straight dude and I just dont get it.. My feelings are WHO CARES? and those who DO care.. WHY do you care so much? Just mind your own business. Gays aren't corrupting anything. They just wanna be happy, let em get married if they want to. Being gay isnt a choice and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. I can't just choose to like guys if i wanted to. I'm turned on by hott chicks. Some men are turned on by hott guys. I don't understand it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong, just different. I don't understand why being gay is even a big deal to be honest. Like people feel ashamed for it and I don't understand that. The only people who make fun of people for being gay are high school kids and other immature people. I live in a dorm with a straight dude and we live beside and share a bathroom with a gay dude. He's a funny guy and has been cool so far, just different. No reason not to respect others peoples lifestyles

11-10-2010, 09:44 PM	#497 (permalink)
Toao Groupie Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fountain Valley Posts: 29	I think the biggest problem with homosexuals are the one's that know they are gay deep down inside, but can't face the reality. And so they beat them up, or rant about how evil it is. Besides, something like 80% of gay men are born that way. The rest just get sucked into it.