Originally Posted by AwwSugar

Originally Posted by eric generic

the problem with homos is that 90% of people aren't homos.

Originally Posted by Sansa Stark

I'm down with Jesus, in that case.

Originally Posted by Consolator

I'd like to post my two cents here..sorry if it's slightly jumbled/disorganized.

I definitely see improvement in the future. As a homosexual (why is *** censored?) man, born and raised in Texas, I can say without a doubt progress is being made. I was your pretty typical boy growing up. I loved legos and hot wheels. It took me a long time to finally realize that I may be homosexual (god, I feel awkward saying this), as it was something I was never exposed to. My family (or I guess I should say my mother) had a pretty good reaction to my coming out, she had suspected it for years. My days in high school were pretty miserable, though not because others were giving me a hard time. I felt so alone for most of my time in high school -- I had no friends the first two years of high school. I was socially awkward and introverted. There was also the period of denial, which was obscenely difficult to deal with. I came out my junior year. My senior year I made absolutely amazing friends, and found support in the most unlikely places. The absolute worst I had to face in high school were random morons trying to tell me that I was demonic or mentally ****ed up and justifying their hateful words by throwing bible passages at me. I knew they didn't understand, and it's OK. Even those happenings were rare. Most people assume I'm straight. I never once felt physically threatened.

In regards to same-sex marriage..

It really isn't any of your business if you think same-sex marriage is wrong. The whole argument about calling it something else is nonsense -- separate but equal did not work with segregation, and it shouldn't even be suggested again. America was founded on the basis of freedom and equality. Not everyone in the country practices a religion. Don't you find it a bit inconsiderate to force your views on them? You could argue that I'm doing the same, but what I'm arguing for is neutrality on the issue. Religion shouldn't even be a part of something like this. If you fear the "sanctity of marriage" will be threatened by homosexuals getting married, then I think you may need a bit of a reality check. The current divorce rate in the US is what? Estimated to be between 40 and 50%? Right. I think the "sanctity" (whatever the hell that even means) has been gone for a good while. Please keep in mind, when I say same-sex marriage, I mean the legal contract. Not the religious ceremony. No church should be forced to marry someone they do not see fit, imo.

It is my personal belief that if two people love each other, they deserve the same rights, and privileges as any other couple. There's a fair amount of research on the causes of homosexuality, but few sure things are known. According to the American Psychological Association, homosexuality is something innate and immutable. I could talk about the theories, but if you're really curious, you can google them. In the end, what it comes down to is respect for others.

I'd also like to mention same-sex couples adopting children. The only state I recall that has completely and totally outlawed anybody deemed homosexual/bisexual to adopt is Florida. In most other states, it is deemed "unfavorable" in the approval process to be homosexual, or the boundaries are simply unclear. This isn't completely fair in my eyes, because of the basis they deem homosexuals to be bad parents. Sexual orientation does not determine whether someone will be a crappy parent or not. My father was completely heterosexual, and suffice it to say, he is someone that should not have been a parent. He was all sorts of abusive towards my mother, and was a terrible influence on me. He let me drink hard liquor when I was a child, and has probably smoked enough cigarettes in my presence to give me several rounds of lung cancer.

There have been numerous studies to make sure that the development of children was not stunted (or whatever you want to call it) when raised by same-sex couples. The findings? It doesn't matter what gender your parents are. It matters that the parents are loving and supportive of you. I actually had a very in-depth discussion about this with a psychologist friend of mine, whose argument was similar to mine. He said that one parent would naturally become the more dominant one, while the other would be the supportive one. He saw absolutely no reasoning behind not allowing homosexuals to adopt, or to discriminate against them in the adoption process.

There's also the whole notion of making laws to protect homosexuals/transpeople from discrimination in the workplace, though I won't get into that as its something I'm not as knowledgeable about.

To end my post, I'll try to address some of the points boo boo made. Looking back on it, I should have known at a relatively young age that I was homosexual. I've always felt a slight attraction towards men, I just never fully realized it until puberty brought along my sexual urges. Funny sounding, I know.

Originally Posted by eric generic

the problem with homos is that 90% of people aren't homos.

Originally Posted by tore

Thanks for your story, Consolator, and welcome to Musicbanter

You bring up some good points and I agree with you. I don't think there's any true basis - religious, social, biological or anything else - which justifies discrimination of *** people (and yeah, why the hell is *** still censored?).

John Rawls had some good ideas regarding social contracts. He wrote that if you got the chance to decide how society should be, you should do it under a veil of ignorance which is a sort of thought experiment. What it means is, when making such decisions, you should forget who you are - the colour of your skin, your gender, whether or not you're part of an ethnic minority, your sexual orientation, etc - and then build the society without knowing at all what your place in it would be - if you'd be a homosexual person or straight f.ex .. and then of course, make it as good as possible, one you'd like to live in even if you don't know who you'd be. The idea is that the thought excercise or what you wanna call it let's you see how society could/should be without the taint of your own selfishness. I'm sure if it really was possible to create a society that way, there would be less discrimination.

By the way, kids throwing bible pages at you? How strange .. sometimes, I'm reminded that America is far away from here and not just talking distance either. Do you think that could have happened to someone in what was your situation today?

Originally Posted by mr dave

the problem with homosexuality is that it runs counter to the only real method of survival for the species.