Cressidagater

Humans are biologically animals, mammals, fair enough.

But is a fish a bird? Is a dog a mouse? is a monkey a lizard? no, thats crazy, of course.

Is a human like any of those animals?

Life may be about, understanding your biology and seeking to fulfill it. But, thats a choice, again, you could choose to sit indoors all day and do nothing and ignore your biology, get fat, get sick, die. You dont have to do anything. I even go as far as to say you dont have to live. Do you wish to? thats what I ask. If so, you make a choice to. And so forth for everything you're faced with in life. Your biology may be flawed. Maybe you can fix your biology. Nothing should be accepted as given, thats what im saying. Question it.

im not denying nature, quite the opposite. Nature has provided a thinking brain to you, a human, so that you can use it to make intelligent decisions. You can do anything. whats the worst that'll happen, you'll die. Wont that happen anyway?

At the end of the day, ironically its actually a choice whether you accept that you have choices, or not.

Scarlett O'Hara

Who's sugar coating it? At what point during this thread did it say rape was acceptable or morally okay? Not every man is a 'perv', nor are they any other stereotype you'd like to through at them. If you're going to comment again, please make it a little more thought through.

Oh and to the member who said about women raping men, good point - rape isn't just a mans act.

Tore you definitely have some good points, being from a biological background will indeed give you some knowledge on the biological beginnings of rape. One question I'd like to raise, in native tribes which are very secluded from the world, is there a higher tendency of rape? Now this in no way is meant to make them seem inferior or immoral I just have heard some stories that some African tribes for example the women is chosen by the man through some manner and had forced the woman to have sexual intercourse with him. It's something that perhaps not all communities will look down on, maybe just turn their eyes away from it.

What do you guys think?

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Guybrush

Boo, I don't think you "get" how to apply theory to practical every day knowledge. You'll see I wrote this :

It looks to me like the unstable, damaged people in society you describe most likely fit the "loser" type I wrote about in my own post. I don't think you understand the question very well, because saying they do it because they are sick does not actually answer the question of the thread. It just begs a new question, why do people who are sick/unstable more often commit assault rapes? We want the ultimate reason - we are products of evolution and so are our behaviours, so where did that come from? Has it evolved because it's been selected for or is it a byproduct from selection on other traits or even a strange set of mutations or something? Or is it triggered when a certain genetic makeup meets certain genetic cues?

Whatever people think about about hypothesis on rape, the answer has to be in one of those general hypotheses .. at least if you accept that humans evolved.

edit :

Everything you are is rooted in your biology. Say you have person A and person B. They've lived pretty much the same life in the same environment, but person B has a genetic makeup that makes him more likely to develop schizophrenia. When both person A and B experience the same traumatic incident, person A processes it mentally and emotionally while person B has problems with these things and get sick.

In this example, they experienced the same environment, but they respond differently because of different genetic makeups. Stuff like this, like how much of a behaviour is just genes talking, is testable and measurable with animals in the lab f.ex. I agree that environment made person B sick, but on the other hand, maybe person A couldn't get sick like that from such an experience or maybe he just can't period. Obviously, biology plays a part.

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Something Completely Different

boo boo

You ask some really stupid questions.

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

mr dave

but... but, BUT.... that would mean i would have to take personal responsibility for the actions i choose to take or avoid based on internal influences and, and... i might do something that most people would consider unacceptable and it's just not fair.... not fair at all! that i would have to be punished and forced to take responsibility for doing something that i chose to not exert any self-control over. NOT FAIR!!! WHY DOES MY CAKE DISAPPEAR WHEN I EAT IT?!?!????!!!

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i am the universe

Cressidagater

Personally man, I agree with the person B being perhaps more likely to develop the disease than person A. But despite their biology, both person A, or person B, could go through a situation, which strengthens their resolve. At an early stage, one might be more susceptable to mental breakdown, due to biology; but as you grow and progress, that susceptibility, either grows too, or starts to diminish, according to how they learn to deal with situations. Maybe Person B never went through certain situations at a young age that prepared him/her for life, or maybe Person A had more support, so on. Life is a learning curve, it's progressive Biology plays a part, I agree man, important part. But it's not absolute.

We're not worker ants. You can't look at a new born baby and say "they're going to be this or that, they're going to live their life in this certain way, they're going to do these things, get ill on these days" and expect it to be accurate. Biology doesn't supercede conciousness, whatever you do in life you still have to think to do it.

I disagree with the idea that a capable, sane, responsible adult Human Being, is simply a mechanism "reacting" to it's environment. I believe a Human Being, is more than the sum of it's parts.


thats all it is, fear of personal responsibility. THIS IS MY BIOLOGY DONT TELL ME NOT TO DO IT WAH WAH WAH!!!! if you ask me, that's even worse. damned biological zombies, get the shotguns ready


Women rape men???

I think im gonna have to start dressing more provocatively.

I also know in some African tribes they circumsize the clitoris of women so they dont **** around. That seems messed up to me.

They have their way of life, from the outside looking in, it may seem uncivilized, thats how its been done for a long time, though. If it really bothers you the way I see it you can

A. Attempt to educate them as to why it shouldnt be done

B. if this fails, either leave them to it, or declare war on them

the last one obviously if you're in charge of some sort of government/military. I wouldnt sugest going rambo on them.

boo boo

I know I come off as an extreme apologist for women but one assumption I think is quite wrong is that women don't rape. I'm sure it's not very common but it does happen. These cases probably go unreported most of the time because the idea that a woman could ever overpower a man seems absurd to men and it's something men would consider too embarassing to admit.

But lets be realistic.

Moderator cut: image removed

This chick could rape the F*CK out of you.

EDIT: And no I don't think chicks have to be bodybuilders to be capable of raping men.

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

Guybrush

No man, you don't get my example. When I write that person A and B has lived the same environment, I mean they've been affected the same by environment - had the same external input. It means they've had the same stuff happen to them in their lives. That might sound weird, but in a lab, you can raise animals in the same environment with the same kind of environmental stresses and see how they behave differently to the same stuff and then sometime tie those differences in behaviour to specific genes.

That's actually not what this biological theory says either. Man, people are good at misunderstanding what it means .. Of course there is plasticity - we can choose from a range of reactions and learn which ones work and which ones don't. Biology makes sex feel good, but you can choose to abstain. Biology might make a guy react with anger when someone flirts with his girlfriend, but he doesn't have to punch someone.

The theory I've mentioned is not about avoiding responsibility or anything on a personal level. This is simply explaining why the behaviours we call rape exist. Biological theory can come up with some good hypotheses to explain it. It would be fun to discuss them, but it seems very few make even the slightest effort to try and grasp any of them.

I'd like to ask people who don't think biology has anything to do with rape - why are there so many male rapists in the statistics compared to female?

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Something Completely Different

P A N

tore, you have good thoughts.

Cressidagater

by the way dude, feel under no obligation to reply to any of this, or read even, as I can see its rather extensive in length. Its my thoughts there for anyone who wishes to read; I only used your posts as a jumping point for the ideas, not as a direct challenge or insult of any kind.

Fair dues man, I dig that, basically you're saying, if two beings, play out exactly the same, in the same environment, their difference in being, and biology, will mean they inevitably grow and react differently to the environment.

Well what I mean to say is, in an active environment, with uncontrolled phenomena, the biological susceptibility to disease (in particular mental disease) can be over-ridden by adaptibility.

In the controlled environment as you said there, thats a test of biology; but what people fail to understand is that we dont live in a controlled environment. I assumed you were implying that, thats my fault for not reading it properly, my apologies. Our biology adapts and changes and grows and so forth.

If you remove every decision, every new influence, and have two thing in a sandbox acting purely and utterly off their biology, for example

take 2 new born puppies and drown them, see which one drowns first

then you're testing them purely off of this state that they're in now. Even that is not a fair test. The way they've grown in the womb has been influenced by slight changes in blood pressure, nutrients. What you will learn is, Puppy A drowns faster than Puppy B. this is due to Puppy A's lungs being smaller than Puppy Bs

but if Puppy A and puppy B were left to grow, how would they grow? would puppy A's lungs grow and puppy b's stop? would puppy A, learn how to survive and achieve the same tasks as puppy B, despite a smaller lung capacity?

biological tesing, and anylysis is valid. BUT, impractical, unless applied to the large idea of what an organism is in its entirety; in particular,intelligent concious organisms, such as a human being. We are still influenced, limited perhaps, by our biology. But, it's not the one and only nor strongest aspect, of being. In my opinion.






I apologise for jumping the gun then. Of course i've got no aversion to biologically explaining why people do things. what gets my sandiwch in a pickle is when people claim thats all there is to it. I say that, I believe that beyond basic functions, we're not confined or bound by that biology; it's not our driving factor. I believe individual conciousness, and analyse of one's surroundings through that conciousness, is our driving factor; the strongest force of being.

Basic functions required for you to live, you do these, because if you didnt, you'd cease to live. Any imposition or restraint on them is an insult. But sex, and by proxy, rape, is not a neccessity to live. Ergo, its a luxury, ergo it shouldnt be tolerated that people excercise no self-control over it, especially when it's so humiliating and disrespectful to the person being raped.

I believe it's a combination man. It's the biologically, hormonal burst of sexual attraction, and then its then the inability of the mind to process this; taking shortcuts, obsessing even, so that the outcome becomes

"stick in there and it'll feel good, they're not important, the etiquette the mating ritual, not important, stick it in it feels good"

like an explosive knee-jerk reaction. Not to sound cold, but that can be taken apart; deconstructed. And they can be taught a level of awareness of base function, and a level of control over any function beyond this.

Regardless of whether that be a bold claim as to the limitations of the human organism, surely that should be evry human beings goal? to achieve a state of peace, awareness, and control over their body?

You have for example, the buddhist monks that can shut down organ function. Difficult, yes. Not impossible.

If one were to achieve it, fully, a full awareness, I believe it would be a state like "Nirvana" or "Heaven". Complete awareness.


Maybe I am wrong, and it's the nature of Humankind to be igorant. In which case achieivng this would be a state of burning eternal Hell. But I dont believe this. Because anything you do, could be done better with greater awareness and knowledge, in particular, of your self. To find full awareness, would be spiritual paradise I believe. Thats my goal in life, before I die. Maybe then this state lives on beyond the body, maybe not. But I would achieve it, before I die. If on the other hand, that death be for eternity so be it. I spent my blink of a great cosmic eye here in the pursuit of as supremely as I might.

To come back to the topic at hand; I dont accept the act nor believe its jusitifable in any way. But, it is plausible that there are statistically more male rapists than female, because lets call rape, the inherent sexual desire, which stems from a desire to reproduce. As such, a male, could hypothetically stick his wang in as many women as possible in the hopes of keeping the race alive. when you look at the female body, a female reproduces, and then cares for this baby within her. I'm not saying that the desire to reproduce is any less for females; but I am saying, its more focused, clearer, less chaotic.

As such, you would likely get less female rapists, because the female body is set up to recieve the seed and care for the baby, whereas the male body is set up to release the seed, and go release some more.

Still its completely absurd and inexcusable. If you care THAT much about humanity, start a family, care for them, have a baby out of love, raise it together with your spouse, dedicate oneself to them. Its that fear of responsibility, as well, plays into it. "If I settle down, maybe I'll screw the kid up. So I'll have as many kids as possible to give my genes and humanity the best chance possible" ergo this leads to promiscuity, and arguably, to the mindset of the rapist, even. Only one step away.

further still, one could start to believe "well i;ll just stick my wang in ANYTHING maybe it;ll get pregnant" hence sexual perversion and deviancy.

or of course, not to be sexist one could say, "i'll stick anything UP my snatch maybe it'll work"

but i believe its less present in women, because its the WOMEN, that the baby grows inside. women's intuition they call it. comes from that if you ask me.

You could then of course carry this obsession onwards ie. "feels good so if it feels good im doing good, so ANYTHING that feels good is doing good, so im gonna start making the act of sex with things other than that which I KNOW i could impregnate/be impregnated by"

all it is is a gross malformation of sexual desire for reproduction.

I dont mean infertile couples either. I dont lump them in with this lot. I feel for such people because they've got it all there, but its just not coming together. sometimes miracles happen it does. sometimes medicine helps.

But im talking about sexual perversion of all sorts. Pedophilia, bestiality, homsexuality, small list of many. All it comes down to is, this feels good. WHY does it feel good? because supposedly you're propagating our race. if you're not then good for you my friend you found a way to beat life TO THE VICTOR THE SPOILS!!! As long as it doesnt involve me, nor anyone who doesnt WISH to be involed, i couldnt care less.

Pedophilia, could you put weight in a child saying they wish to be involved? no, ergo null and void

bestiality, could you even ask an animal? no. null and void; unless of course, you believe they're inferior and here at your whim. If I believe this, I'd kill them all personally speaking, what's their purpose? ergo null and void.

homosexuality, null and void for me im a male i have no need for close proximity with the male; I already am one complete male in myself. It's all here, is for every man they're a man, and every woman, is already a woman, too. By defintion. Thats my own personal view on life. Others, if 2 or however many people all consent to it, so-be it their choice. But do they understand what they do and this whole line of reasoning I've given?

People say, "FASCIST!!" "BIGOT!!!" whenever you have an opinion on this. As such people stop discussing; its become tabboo to care about your fellow Humans. im breaking the tabboo sir. Makes no difference to me what they do, as I shall not be involved regardless, i see them as a human being, a brother, regardless of how they see me. BUT, do they realy WISH to be doing it? If so, if they understand all of this, and still wish to do it thats their decision. Null and void for myself.

Sex with inanimate objects: null and void, unfulfilling. pointless yet refreshingly simple, basic masturbation all this is. does the inanimate object have a say; no, as its inanimate who cares just a lump of material. BUT, does that mean its purpose should be undermined? for example, a chair is for sitting. If you start to use it for ejaculation, you may damage it. As long as you know that, do it if you want. blow up dolls. image of a woman. but not a woman, is it? could find a mate instead.

Pornography, null and void, but perhaps the closest that one who is not currently having sex, can get to sex. or the imagining of it. Null and void, when the offer of sex arises.Negative, if one becomes obsessed with it.