Prayers answered? Good Luck? Mind over matter?

RVCA · 06-17-2010, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

how is it weak to have a faithful belief in something in the face of popular adversity?

Popular adversity? What? I'm not sure about other parts of the world, but atheists are a small minority of America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

If prayer is for the rediculious and stupid, I ask you this..
Wtf do the sound and smart people do?? Bash the faithful? Sounds pretty dumb to me, let us pray.

No, we hold ourselves accountable for our own actions. We understand that not everything happens for a reason. Good things happen to bad people, and bad things happen to good people. Nobody out there needs to justify everything for me. Life can suck, but more importantly, life is what YOU make it. Not god.

mr dave · 06-17-2010, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

Popular adversity? What? I'm not sure about other parts of the world, but atheists are a small minority of America.

you said prayer was for the weak.

it seems to me the act of praying is shunned, that's the unpopular one. yet people still choose to do it in the face of ridicule and derision because of a choice of faith.

how is that weak?

RVCA · 06-17-2010, 02:37 AM

I get what you're saying, but how in the hell is the act of prayer an unpopular act?

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

Since Yukon can't be bothered with reading links, that's a report from the pewforum on the statistics of religion in America. It says that nearly 80% of Americans identify as "Christian" and almost 5% identify as "other religions", with a shockingly low 1.6% identifying as "Atheist".

Prayer is hardly conducted in the "face of ridicule and derision".

mr dave · 06-17-2010, 06:00 PM

well... you've now proven worthless to keep replying to.

have fun trying to keep twisting things around so you can play the victim and push your agenda on people choosing to have a faithful spiritual belief as being somehow more stupid than your own choice to have a faithful denial of spirituality.

there's a big difference between religious association and practicing religion. how often do you see people saying Grace in public? i know a few people who feel they have to hide the fact that they say a quick word towards their beliefs before eating. it's been stripped from school, public office, government (and all appropriately so) but in doing that it's also been removed from socially accepted behavior. while there are some areas where it's still accepted there are far more where it seems only tolerated through political correctness.

RVCA · 06-17-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

well... you've now proven worthless to keep replying to.

have fun trying to keep twisting things around so you can play the victim and push your agenda on people choosing to have a faithful spiritual belief as being somehow more stupid than your own choice to have a faithful denial of spirituality.

there's a big difference between religious association and practicing religion. how often do you see people saying Grace in public? i know a few people who feel they have to hide the fact that they say a quick word towards their beliefs before eating. it's been stripped from school, public office, government (and all appropriately so) but in doing that it's also been removed from socially accepted behavior. while there are some areas where it's still accepted there are far more where it seems only tolerated through political correctness.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, dismissing me entirely from the outset displays terrible arguing skills. At least tack your lame ad hominen attacks to the end of your argument.

That being said, when have I ever claimed (or even insinuated) that I was being victimized? Furthermore, how am I "pushing my agenda" on anyone? This is a thread about our OPINIONS on PRAYER. I stated exactly that, nothing more, nothing less.

I won't even touch your second paragraph, as it delves into the world of Church and State separation which is a new can of worms entirely.

Yukon Cornelius · 06-18-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

Whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, dismissing me entirely from the outset displays terrible arguing skills. At least tack your lame ad hominen attacks to the end of your argument.

That being said, when have I ever claimed (or even insinuated) that I was being victimized? Furthermore, how am I "pushing my agenda" on anyone? This is a thread about our OPINIONS on PRAYER. I stated exactly that, nothing more, nothing less.

I won't even touch your second paragraph, as it delves into the world of Church and State separation which is a new can of worms entirely.

Dude, I don't know... But with the defensive stance you took here is indicative of somone getting frusterated with people who won't follow your agenda. You can say what you want and feel how you want but understand there will be questions for you to answer on why you feel the way you do as apposed to why we should feel the way you do. All I have noticed in your responses is that you are comfortable finding the biggest bush around and beating the hell out of it.

Reading back a little it appears you assume rather than know and rely on Harvard to do your studies for you. Harvard is a great school but when it comes down to it there study to figure out whether prayers are answered shows us what exacty?? There must be question in this field of study. The study could have many variables that compromise it such as it not having anything to do with the people there praying for, thus having no real feeling for the experiment in the first place but hey, I didn't read it so I'm only assuming myself,

mr dave · 06-18-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Harvard is a great school but when it comes down to it there study to figure out whether prayers are answered shows us what exacty?? There must be question in this field of study. The study could have many variables that compromise it such as it not having anything to do with the people there praying for, thus having no real feeling for the experiment in the first place but hey, I didn't read it so I'm only assuming myself,

i know we don't normally see eye to eye - and i doubt we do on the issue of prayer too, but i can definitely agree with this.

ultimately the act of praying revolves around a belief based on a personal spiritual choice, so to me personal anecdotal evidence seems far more worthwhile than any clinical study. apparently that makes me stupid and weak.

Nadia · 06-18-2010, 01:23 PM

I think the Harvard experiment, along with the many others of it's type, would count as proof of the failings of prayer on a physical level, but it doesn't touch the issue on a psychological level, because no amount of positive thinking can, say, cure cancer, or get $1000 into their bank account.

I am an atheist, but I do think the act of prayer can sometimes help motivate a person, as some people said earlier in the thread - it is the acknowledgement of the problem which helps people, not a supernatural being, and once a problem has been vocalised, the person will feel more motivated to solve the problem.

duga · 06-18-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

i know we don't normally see eye to eye - and i doubt we do on the issue of prayer too, but i can definitely agree with this.

ultimately the act of praying revolves around a belief based on a personal spiritual choice, so to me personal anecdotal evidence seems far more worthwhile than any clinical study. apparently that makes me stupid and weak.

Not following an organized religion doesn't have to mean everything spiritual is stupid. In my own way I find myself praying all the time by just hoping to myself. That's like a prayer. I'm always asking something out there to help me out when I need it. I may not expect any help to actually come from it, but it makes me feel better about my situation anyway. I would be surprised if there was someone who didn't do this from time to time, honestly.

~~Odyshape~~ · 06-26-2010, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Not following an organized religion doesn't have to mean everything spiritual is stupid. In my own way I find myself praying all the time by just hoping to myself. That's like a prayer. I'm always asking something out there to help me out when I need it. I may not expect any help to actually come from it, but it makes me feel better about my situation anyway. I would be surprised if there was someone who didn't do this from time to time, honestly.

Isn't that really just personal reflection? To me prayers to God are much different even if they can have the same reflective qualities at times.

06-17-2010, 02:37 AM	#53 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270	I get what you're saying, but how in the hell is the act of prayer an unpopular act? Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life Since Yukon can't be bothered with reading links, that's a report from the pewforum on the statistics of religion in America. It says that nearly 80% of Americans identify as "Christian" and almost 5% identify as "other religions", with a shockingly low 1.6% identifying as "Atheist". Prayer is hardly conducted in the "face of ridicule and derision".

06-18-2010, 01:23 PM	#58 (permalink)
Nadia Groupie Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: nowhere near you Posts: 45	I think the Harvard experiment, along with the many others of it's type, would count as proof of the failings of prayer on a physical level, but it doesn't touch the issue on a psychological level, because no amount of positive thinking can, say, cure cancer, or get $1000 into their bank account. I am an atheist, but I do think the act of prayer can sometimes help motivate a person, as some people said earlier in the thread - it is the acknowledgement of the problem which helps people, not a supernatural being, and once a problem has been vocalised, the person will feel more motivated to solve the problem.