Miracles!!

Guybrush · 05-12-2010, 05:40 AM

David, The story about your sister alone sounds pretty rough, but I'm glad to hear she recovered! About your father, I am sorry for your loss. I lost my grandparents on my father's side a few years ago and it was a pretty awful, drawn out and tragic affair for both of them. Now, I really dread the day my own parents get sick

As a general comment to the miracles topic, I sometimes think calling stuff miracles sort of cheapens nature or reality. I'm not so much talking about people surviving overwhelming odds, that's fine although I do agree with Dave a bit in that it can underestimate the human spirit a bit, but .. Stuff like the existence of stars or the emergence of life are not really miracles. While surviving tough odds may be a really unlikely event, I think the emergence of life on our planet considering it's placement, size and the presence of water etc. was basically inevitable. Assuming life emerged once and then all life descended from that one event (doesn't have to be true at all), if that event hadn't happened when it did, I believe it would've happened on a later occasion anyways!

mr dave · 05-12-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Stuff like the existence of stars or the emergence of life are not really miracles.

agreed, but have you checked out the ICP clip in this thread about 'Miracles' and what they consider miraculous occurrences? hahaha

stars seem like a sensible miracle in comparison.

TheCunningStunt · 05-12-2010, 05:41 PM

I used to believe in miracles and fate and stuff like that, then I become a cynic.

dankrsta · 05-13-2010, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I sometimes think calling stuff miracles sort of cheapens nature or reality.

For me it's completely the opposite. To have this exclusively positivist view on reality with explainable laws is to simplify it and yes, cheapen it in a way. There has to be a sense of mystery in it, and by that I don't mean an ignorance that will eventually go away when we have more knowledge. I'm referring to the essential mystery of things that can never be explained to its fullness. (otherwise there would be no point for the Philosophy to exist). To me this feeling of mystery (and miracles are the obvious part of it) is what enriches the reality, because it opens a world of possibilities that I wouldn't want to lose.

It's like absorbing a work of art. The more obvious it is the more power it loses. When you figure it out, you lose interest. But if there are secrets in it, something that you can't put your finger on, but is drawing you to discover something more every time, it becomes a well of themes, layers and emotions and never lets you go. That's when you know you're in a presence of great art. I'm choosing and trying to view the world this way, it's much more rewarding.

Astronomer · 05-14-2010, 02:22 AM

r-t, that anecdote is incredible. I am so sorry for the loss of your father

but that is incredible that your sister made it through.

cardboard adolescent · 05-14-2010, 04:26 PM

everything is a miracle. "physical laws" only pertain to a certain mode of relating to and engaging the universe. the higher realms have laws of their own which are learned largely through intuitive rather than rational means, but having done this literally anything becomes possible.

RVCA · 05-16-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

it's a miracle people still buy into these claims when they pop up every couple of years. what about the one about the kid in India that the Discovery channel recorded meditating for two weeks with no food or water?

as for the 'breatherator' thing, is anyone else at all surprised that googling that term doesn't actually return anything at all besides that one article?

while extraordinary, this is hardly the wildest claim i've ever read about yogis or people who practice high level meditation, and definitely not something i'd call a miracle (more like a metaphysical parlour trick). managing to survive for 10 days while being crushed by the rubble of a building following a natural disaster on the other hand, is most definitely what i'd call miraculous.

Dom · 05-26-2010, 08:37 AM

Wikipedia says that a miracle is "an act that defies the laws of nature". I would say that a miracle is more like something that is amazing and cannot be explained by science yet. I do believe that some of these "miracles" are true but I don't see them as proof of God or anything - simply a gap in our scientific knowledge. We are a very very long way from complete scientific understanding. Even just 100 years ago theories thought to be true have now been proven completely wrong, and I'm sure it will be exactly the same in another 100 years.

CanwllCorfe · 05-26-2010, 07:46 PM

Master Jo!

~~Harry~~ · 05-27-2010, 10:48 PM

No miracles. Everything in life occurs in the exact way it was predestined to.

05-12-2010, 05:40 AM	#21 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	David, The story about your sister alone sounds pretty rough, but I'm glad to hear she recovered! About your father, I am sorry for your loss. I lost my grandparents on my father's side a few years ago and it was a pretty awful, drawn out and tragic affair for both of them. Now, I really dread the day my own parents get sick As a general comment to the miracles topic, I sometimes think calling stuff miracles sort of cheapens nature or reality. I'm not so much talking about people surviving overwhelming odds, that's fine although I do agree with Dave a bit in that it can underestimate the human spirit a bit, but .. Stuff like the existence of stars or the emergence of life are not really miracles. While surviving tough odds may be a really unlikely event, I think the emergence of life on our planet considering it's placement, size and the presence of water etc. was basically inevitable. Assuming life emerged once and then all life descended from that one event (doesn't have to be true at all), if that event hadn't happened when it did, I believe it would've happened on a later occasion anyways! __________________ Something Completely Different

05-14-2010, 02:22 AM	#25 (permalink)
Astronomer we are stardust Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2,894	r-t, that anecdote is incredible. I am so sorry for the loss of your father but that is incredible that your sister made it through. __________________

05-26-2010, 08:37 AM	#28 (permalink)
Dom Music Addict Join Date: May 2010 Location: UK Posts: 120	Wikipedia says that a miracle is "an act that defies the laws of nature". I would say that a miracle is more like something that is amazing and cannot be explained by science yet. I do believe that some of these "miracles" are true but I don't see them as proof of God or anything - simply a gap in our scientific knowledge. We are a very very long way from complete scientific understanding. Even just 100 years ago theories thought to be true have now been proven completely wrong, and I'm sure it will be exactly the same in another 100 years. __________________ Last.fm No more stories / are told today / I'm sorry / they washed away // No more stories / the world is grey / I'm tired / let's wash away.

05-26-2010, 07:46 PM	#29 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	Master Jo! __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

05-12-2010, 05:41 PM	#23 (permalink)
TheCunningStunt love will tear you apart Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Manchester, UK. Posts: 5,107	I used to believe in miracles and fate and stuff like that, then I become a cynic.

05-14-2010, 04:26 PM	#26 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	everything is a miracle. "physical laws" only pertain to a certain mode of relating to and engaging the universe. the higher realms have laws of their own which are learned largely through intuitive rather than rational means, but having done this literally anything becomes possible.

05-27-2010, 10:48 PM	#30 (permalink)
~~Harry~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Leith Posts: 72	No miracles. Everything in life occurs in the exact way it was predestined to.