Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill - Music Banter Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge > Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion
Register Blogging Today's Posts
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-23-2010, 07:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,538
Default Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill - Yahoo! News

Well it happened, folks. The bill that in essence gives Police Offers the right to demand anyone who is "suspicious" to show their papers has been signed into law. Does this mean they'll be "suspecting" Canadians as being illegal immigrants to the US? Nope. It means if you're of Hispanic descent and speak with an accent, the police have the right to demand you prove your citizenship or face being arrested.
someonecompletelyrandom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 08:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
carpe musicam
 
Neapolitan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Les Barricades Mystérieuses
Posts: 7,710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
Nope. It means if you're of Hispanic descent and speak with an accent, the police have the right to demand you prove your citizenship or face being arrested.
I wouldn't say Hispanic descent, most Mexican that come across the border are Indian, Hispanic-Indian descent and even though they are Spanish speaking they are poor and are different people from the Mexican upper class. And does the Hispanic upper class in Mexico really care where they go? I really don't think they do.

Does Arizona have a right to make laws to protect itself? I think it does, I think if law enforcement has a tool to curb kidknapping that takes place in Phoenix then I don't have anything against it. Is this a law be use to protect people from serious crime, it depend how it's writen and if it is acceptable depends how it's presented in the media. Do I want to see a law used against innocent people? of course not.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mord View Post
Actually, I like you a lot, Nea. That's why I treat you like ****. It's the MB way.

"it counts in our hearts" ?ºº?
“I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion.” Jack Kerouac.
“If one listens to the wrong kind of music, he will become the wrong kind of person.” Aristotle.
"If you tried to give Rock and Roll another name, you might call it 'Chuck Berry'." John Lennon
"I look for ambiguity when I'm writing because life is ambiguous." Keith Richards
Neapolitan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 08:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
moon shoes
 
Ronnie Jane Devo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 57
Default

Since you seem to hate the Arizona law so much Conan, could you explain to us what a better alternative is to solving the illegal immigration problem?
__________________
Last.fm
Ronnie Jane Devo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 09:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
we are stardust
 
Astronomer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,894
Default

__________________
Astronomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 09:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
moon shoes
 
Ronnie Jane Devo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 57
Default

wtf
__________________
Last.fm
Ronnie Jane Devo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 09:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Jane Devo View Post
Since you seem to hate the Arizona law so much Conan, could you explain to us what a better alternative is to solving the illegal immigration problem?
How about with a bill that doesn't condone racial profiling?

How about we work more with the Mexican Government about better protection on their side of the border? How about we make the process for people to reside in the US legally easier? Or we could focus our attention on helping Mexico improve as a nation, so people wouldn't be compelled to leave. It may take longer, but if we invested half the money we spend fighting a phony war-on-drugs into it then I don't see it being too far-fetched.

And when did I say I hated Arizona law? That doesn't even make sense. I don't hate Arizona as a state, nor do I have any feelings one way or the other about any other bills the state signs into law. Any state that signs a bill that says a police officer can pull me over based on his personal "suspicions", which can easily translate into profiling, I detest.

How'd you like to be a Mexican American in Arizona? They can arrest and charge you if you don't carry your immigration papers at all times. If we turn our police force into immigration officers, we loose the respect of the communities they try to protect. The communities become afraid of the police force and would refuse involvement in cases crucial to keeping the peace.

Gee, sounds like a great idea to me!

Last edited by someonecompletelyrandom; 04-23-2010 at 10:16 PM.
someonecompletelyrandom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 10:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
moon shoes
 
Ronnie Jane Devo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
How about with a bill that doesn't condone racial profiling?
No argument there I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
How about we work more with the Mexican Government about better protection on their side of the border?
What on earth is the Mexican government going to do about it? They can't even keep their drug cartels under control right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
How about we make the process for people to reside in the US legally easier?
My opinions on this are a little complicated, so I'll save it for after we deal with the other points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
Or we could focus our attention on helping Mexico improve as a nation, so people wouldn't be compelled to leave. It may take longer, but if we invested half the money we spend fighting a phony war-on-drugs into it then I don't see it being too far-fetched.
That's a nice counterfactual can of worms. Putting aside the fact that the US can barely even take care of itself politically and financially right now, I don't see how it's our responsibility to tell another country how to run its government and society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
And when did I say I hated Arizona law? That doesn't even make sense.
You didn't say that, I didn't say you did, and obviously that doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
How'd you like to be a Mexican American in Arizona? They can arrest and charge you if you don't carry your immigration papers at all times. If we turn our police force into immigration officers, we loose the respect of the communities they try to protect. The communities become afraid of the police force and would refuse involvement in cases crucial to keeping the peace.
I don't support racial profiling, but I certainly don't have a problem with 'turning our police force into immigration officers'. If someone is afraid to speak to a police officer because they're doing something illegal, then maybe they shouldn't be doing something illegal in the first place... a novel idea, I know.
__________________
Last.fm
Ronnie Jane Devo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 10:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Jane Devo View Post
You didn't say that, I didn't say you did, and obviously that doesn't make sense.
I was referring to
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Jane Devo View Post
Since you seem to hate the Arizona law so much Conan
but I misread it and didn't see the "the" there. my bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Jane Devo View Post
What on earth is the Mexican government going to do about it? They can't even keep their drug cartels under control right now.
That's why I stressed the US helping Mexico to deal with the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Jane Devo View Post

That's a nice counterfactual can of worms. Putting aside the fact that the US can barely even take care of itself politically and financially right now, I don't see how it's our responsibility to tell another country how to run its government and society.
It's our responsibility because it's our problem. Illegal immigration is an issue in this country and "building a bigger fence" like The Bush Administration tried obviously won't solve anything - neither will signing a bill into law that has serious ethical and moral implications for civil rights in the state of Arizona. Why not? Why not work with another nation about an issue that effects both the US and that nation?

I don't see any harm in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Jane Devo View Post
I don't support racial profiling, but I certainly don't have a problem with 'turning our police force into immigration officers'. If someone is afraid to speak to a police officer because they're doing something illegal, then maybe they shouldn't be doing something illegal in the first place... a novel idea, I know.
That doesn't change the fact that this will lead to distrust of the police and interfere with police activities and investigations. That undermines the security of an area - whether the illegals have the moral right to be here or they don't I'm not addressing. I'm simply stating what many Police Chiefs across the country (including Arizona) have already said.
someonecompletelyrandom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 11:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
moon shoes
 
Ronnie Jane Devo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
It's our responsibility because it's our problem. Illegal immigration is an issue in this country and "building a bigger fence" like The Bush Administration tried obviously won't solve anything - neither will signing a bill into law that has serious ethical and moral implications for civil rights in the state of Arizona. Why not? Why not work with another nation about an issue that effects both the US and that nation?

I don't see any harm in that.
Maybe you should specify what you mean by "work with". I recall that Mexico has asked the US to relax our drug laws which I'm fine with, but that's only a tiny part of the problem, and I really can't picture the corrupt Mexican government being willing to take major steps to improve the lives of the population it is arguably exploiting as it is. You can't just assume that the most idealistic solution is the one that's going to work, and not consider more practical alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conan View Post
That doesn't change the fact that this will lead to distrust of the police and interfere with police activities and investigations. That undermines the security of an area - whether the illegals have the moral right to be here or they don't I'm not addressing. I'm simply stating what many Police Chiefs across the country (including Arizona) have already said.
Oh for christ's sake, police are there to enforce the law, not be everyone's buddies. What do you expect them to do, turn a blind eye when the amount of lawbreaking becomes inconveniently high?
__________________
Last.fm
Ronnie Jane Devo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2010, 11:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Jane Devo View Post
Maybe you should specify what you mean by "work with". I recall that Mexico has asked the US to relax our drug laws which I'm fine with, but that's only a tiny part of the problem, and I really can't picture the corrupt Mexican government being willing to take major steps to improve the lives of the population it is arguably exploiting as it is. You can't just assume that the most idealistic solution is the one that's going to work, and not consider more practical alternatives.
You mean like racial profiling? I'm not saying you support it. I'm just saying that's what this new law can allow in essence.

Quote:
Oh for christ's sake, police are there to enforce the law, not be everyone's buddies. What do you expect them to do, turn a blind eye when the amount of lawbreaking becomes inconveniently high?
What don't you get? Honestly do I really have to explain this again?

I'll spell it out this time.

1. If the police begin acting as immigration officers, animosity will grow between them and the local Mexican/Spanish community. This means that even if they aren't illegal, there will likely be animosity because of a A) they may have experienced racial profiling at the hands of the police B) they may know somebody who was deported by the police, a friend, a family member, etc C) they are afraid to work with police based on their status as a citizen (this includes anything from being illegal to simply not carrying your citizenship papers).

2. If there is animosity between the police and the community, there will be no cooperation with them. This will hinder investigations and other police activities essential to keeping the peace.

Quote:
What do you expect them to do, turn a blind eye when the amount of lawbreaking becomes inconveniently high?
What?
someonecompletelyrandom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Similar Threads
  • Zodiac signs, Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion Forum, 89 replies
  • Immigration, Current Events, Philosophy, & Religion Forum, 95 replies
  • Signs Of Hope, Hardcore & Emo Forum, 2 replies



© 2003-2024 Advameg, Inc.