Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

Freebase Dali · 04-30-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

You bring up a very good point, and it got me thinking about the way other countries handle this kind of situation. In Singapore, they allow citizens of other countries (namely poorer regions of Indian, Malaysia, and Indonesia) to work construction and other menial labor jobs tax free to save up their money for the period of time they work there. This allows them to send a sizable amount of money back to their families, they can go back after the job is done, and come back when they need more money. This is a win win for both sides as Singapore gets their construction done in a timely manner with a readily available labor force and they get more money than they would ever make back in their home countries.

This, I think, would work wonders here in the US.

I think that's already happening here, but it's just not legal at the moment. Companies hire illegals because they can pay them a lot less than they pay legals, as illegals can't exactly complain to the state. This results in lower cost of doing business, which benefits both the consumer and the economy itself.
It might seem exploitative, but in reality it's not in most cases. The lower pay is still an incentive for illegals, otherwise they wouldn't be working illegally.
Obviously, it's a little different in situations where people are actually trying to escape oppressive, harsh countries and are working to support themselves in America... and it's really hard to create an ethics guide for who's in what situation based on why they say they're here illegally, but overall what you've said in your reply is pretty much what's happening in many cases.

I think the impact that it has on a lot of people's opinions, though, is the job factor. If companies can hire temporary citizens for labor jobs, for half the pay than regular citizens, then companies will tend to do that. Especially when there are no legal repercussions. There's a large percentage of the work force that's part of the labor category, and a large percentage of actual citizens who rely on these jobs. The loudest (or most relevant) objections to illegal workers come from this group and politicians who sympathize with this group's situation.
It can be theorized that guidelines could be set for hiring-quota systems that stipulate only X amount of temporary citizens could be hired, but from a country's perspective, the first priority should be your own citizens... and that X amount are the amount of your own citizens you're putting out of a job.

While I'm sure there are many different ways to approach the problem, above all I think a country should look out for the welfare of its own citizens first before looking out for the welfare of another country's citizens. When the needs of your own country are met, THEN it's time to start helping other people. At the moment, we're no where near meeting the needs of our own people.

duga · 04-30-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

While I'm sure there are many different ways to approach the problem, above all I think a country should look out for the welfare of its own citizens first before looking out for the welfare of another country's citizens. When the needs of your own country are met, THEN it's time to start helping other people. At the moment, we're no where near meeting the needs of our own people.

This is the biggest obstacle right now. I completely agree. Singapore is a very rich country that barely felt the effects of the global recession. Plus this method of doing things has been in effect since they gained independence in the 60's.

I still think it is important to look at its success, and once we have stabilized a bit here, we should definitely look at instituting a similar method. Not only would it provide a constant and cheap workforce for us, but the fact that we are openly trying to help another country (and only as much as they want to be helped) will improve relations and how we are viewed globally.

So, all in all, this would be a long way off. But I'm glad you brought it up because this is definitely the way things should head, in my opinion.

Necromancer · 05-12-2010, 08:16 PM

Everyone here has some very good opinions on the subject, and the one point made that is important to me is how does it all affect minimum wage and the average hourly wage for blue collar workers and everyone as a whole within the work force of the southern states like Arizona and Texas. It is already like the southern states are going backwards when it comes to the amount of $ an hour, private companies that do not offer insurance, unsafe working conditions, its like we're going back in time before the workers unions were formed, and the unions of today seem to be far from what they used to be, if you dont like it they will simply get someone else even cheaper, so my main concern is how is this all going effect me now with $ and working conditions and my childrens yearly income & opportunities in the future.

~~bungalow~~ · 04-30-2010, 01:45 PM

obviously it is preferable to go through legal means to become a citizen if it is feasible for you, but i can't condemn or view as criminal scum people who simply want to improve the quality of their life and their families' lives through undesirable, laborious work.

~~bungalow~~ · 05-17-2010, 04:12 PM

your false dichotomy is ridiculous. but you have a habit of saying ridiculous things.

Neapolitan · 05-18-2010, 08:05 PM

on the contrary, I thought Crash was concise and to the point.

cardboard adolescent · 05-20-2010, 08:55 AM

"Welcome the stranger in your midst, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt..."

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05-12-2010, 08:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
Necromancer Divination Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,655	Everyone here has some very good opinions on the subject, and the one point made that is important to me is how does it all affect minimum wage and the average hourly wage for blue collar workers and everyone as a whole within the work force of the southern states like Arizona and Texas. It is already like the southern states are going backwards when it comes to the amount of $ an hour, private companies that do not offer insurance, unsafe working conditions, its like we're going back in time before the workers unions were formed, and the unions of today seem to be far from what they used to be, if you dont like it they will simply get someone else even cheaper, so my main concern is how is this all going effect me now with $ and working conditions and my childrens yearly income & opportunities in the future.

04-30-2010, 01:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
~~bungalow~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hot-lanta Posts: 3,061	obviously it is preferable to go through legal means to become a citizen if it is feasible for you, but i can't condemn or view as criminal scum people who simply want to improve the quality of their life and their families' lives through undesirable, laborious work.

05-17-2010, 04:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
~~bungalow~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hot-lanta Posts: 3,061	your false dichotomy is ridiculous. but you have a habit of saying ridiculous things.

05-20-2010, 08:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,511	"Welcome the stranger in your midst, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt..."