Unschooling

boo boo · 04-23-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubu

The inherent problem obviously starts at how well they perform at their school tasks.

The biggest trouble of today's education system is that they give the same thing to everybody; no 2 people are evenly matched in all areas, that's the beauty of being human, so why in the hell does everybody have to learn so much stupid bull**** that few people really care about?

This happens because the education system is supposed to make you behave in a certain way, and any child that sees through the superficial purpose rejects school in his own way, so they become kids with "special needs".

What are you talking about specifically.

I'm not saying schools should only teach kids what they are interested in. Science, History, Math, English, Social studies. They're all important things for kids to learn about weither they feel that way or not.

When I was in public school I took no real interest in anything. It wasn't until homeschooling and watching a lot of PBS that I started getting interested in things like science.

Bill Nye the Science Guy has taught me a lot more than any teacher ever did.

lucifer_sam · 04-23-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

I'm not saying that children need to be all lumped into the same category, but I'm also not saying that they should be segregated. I've worked with a lot of children with developmental delays, mostly autism, and when placed in a special needs setting they don't do nearly as well as when they are integrated into the classroom. Yes, it benefits them to have an integration aide, but not all day every day and not in a way that separates them from the rest of the class. At the moment I have a class with 2 ASD kids and 2 kids with other social disorders. They do not have aides or special programs, and the lessons that I and my mentor teacher plan incorporate them into the classroom and allow them to perform to their best ability. The fact that they get to do the same work as everybody else makes them feel included and confident.

Classroom teachers should be able to plan lessons that cater for different developmental stages. Assistance for those children who need it and more challenging work for those who are 'accelerated.'

What kind of message do you think it sends children to be separated in different groups according to ability? That's not what it's like in the 'real world,' if we're arguing that the primary goal of education is to prepare children for life...

That is the real world. Not everybody is created equal. I would say across a democratic society (basically anywhere in the Western world), everybody has the same opportunity, but not necessarily the same talents to achieve those ambitions.

The sad reality is that most of those children will never see the fruits of a functional career. It is a school's responsibility to provide those children with the skills they'll need following their departure from school. That's not saying that all "special needs" children should be treated the same way, but pretending they're the same as everybody else won't help them in the long run.

Astronomer · 04-23-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

That is the real world. Not everybody is created equal. I would say across a democratic society (basically anywhere in the Western world), everybody has the same opportunity, but not necessarily the same talents to achieve those ambitions.

The sad reality is that most of those children will never see the fruits of a functional career. It is a school's responsibility to provide those children with the skills they'll need following their departure from school. That's not saying that all "special needs" children should be treated the same way, but pretending they're the same as everybody else won't help them in the long run.

Not everybody is created equal, but we are part of a society where we all live together in the same community. Shouldn't a classroom echo this kind of diversity and embrace everybody's differences instead of separating them?

Children live up to the expectations you give them. If you believe that they will never see the fruits of a functional career, then they will not. If you believe that they will succeed, they have more of a chance to succeed. A lot of teachers place high expectations on their clever students and low expectations on their at-risk (or developmentally delayed) students. These at-risk students then consequently don't achieve well, because they are not expected to. It's called the Pedagogy of Poverty, a noteworthy teaching pedagogy researched by Haberman and I think it holds a lot of truth.

EDIT: I definitely don't like to treat them as exactly the same as everybody else. Because they are not; it's equity verses equality. All students are different and so have different requirements, you can't treat them all equally because in turn that wouldn't be fair.

boo boo · 04-23-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Not everybody is created equal, but we are part of a society where we all live together in the same community. Shouldn't a classroom echo this kind of diversity and embrace everybody's differences instead of separating them?

Children live up to the expectations you give them. If you believe that they will never see the fruits of a functional career, then they will not. If you believe that they will succeed, they have more of a chance to succeed. A lot of teachers place high expectations on their clever students and low expectations on their at-risk (or developmentally delayed) students. These at-risk students then consequently don't achieve well, because they are not expected to. It's called the Pedagogy of Poverty, a noteworthy teaching pedagogy researched by Haberman and I think it holds a lot of truth.

EDIT: I definitely don't like to treat them as exactly the same as everybody else. Because they are not; it's equity verses equality. All students are different and so have different requirements, you can't treat them all equally because in turn that wouldn't be fair.

Hmm... this sounds like

COMMUNISM!!!

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 04-23-2010, 01:28 PM

^

Speaking of right-wing commentators... Glenn Beck says kids should be home schooled so the evil liberal agenda doesn't influence them in public schools. In other words, your kids should completely close their minds and let the Fox News-watching parents mold their minds.

That pisses me off because it gives home schooling a bad name.

boo boo · 04-23-2010, 02:16 PM

Liberal agenda in the schools. Give me a break.

Texas Conservatives Win Vote on Textbook Standards - NYTimes.com

These textbooks won't only be used in Texas either. That's the scary part.

storymilo · 04-23-2010, 10:28 PM

^That article actually made me feel sick to my stomach.

Aden · 04-25-2010, 11:12 AM

Interesting thread.
First thing I found interesting were several choice words throughout - Liberal, Conservatives, Communism... Seems it is a bureaucracy.

Anyways, letting kids pick their cirriculum? I don't know. I guess the first thing I'd be worried about is the work ethic that would develop. Kids these days don't like homework and will fight and moan about it, but it's gotta get done because the school system knows it's expected. Let them choose a program that's foot loose and fancy free, I wonder how much work would actually be getting done. Because, really, kids have better things to do these days then study or do homework. If it's a choice, I'd bet at least 75% kids wouldn't do it. And we're GOOD at making excuses.

My school offers a few programs for kids in different levels (ex. Math Pure, Math Applied; Chem/Bio/Physics or Science) that sort of helps to teach at different levels.
We've also got a CPS course (Carrer Planning...Something. Studies maybe) which is an optional course you can take instead of having spares. I took it, because the "cool" kids took spares and that'd give me WAY to much chance to run into them, but it was a neat program. Lots of little units in crazy things such as Enviromental Issues, Health Care system... Kind of little bits and peices of what you'd find in carreer choices. Each unit you complete gives you three credits.
It's an OPTIONAL course, so it's pretty bare. Kids get to choose what they want to do, and work it their own pace. Now, some kids who don't have the option of getting spares are put into this course, and I've seen them **** around with the same unit for weeks on end and just not doing the work. Because it's not a graded class, you just get credits that'll add up for when you graduate. But I could see that happening a lot in "Unschooling".

Not that public school is a god-send, by any means. It's ****ed, too. I just don't see how anyone could fix it. I don't mind the school work, per se, but being the loser than I am, I find the atmosphere reallly sucks, mostly with peers, some with teachers.

I dropped out when I was 14 for two months, went back and had to work like a dog to catch up to everyone again. It was physics that I was having issues with and I just couldn't get it. I can't even remember what I was trying to learn, but I had stayed after class with the teacher so he could explain it to me better but just watching it being wrote wasn't really helping and he was looking at me like, "****, you're a useless bastard". He had to go "hands on" instead of just writing it on the blackboard so I could get it and he was really frustrated, at the situation or me, I don't know, but I felt bad and I felt like crap cause I could see he didn't even want to deal with me.
My ex-gym teacher couldn't stand me. I hate sports, and I hate gym. Again, you know, I think the loser roll comes into play cause there's nothing like tackle football to let the bullies really slam you and get away with it. I mean pile drive you into the ground with a kidney shot. But he was an aggressive teacher and that's what he liked to see. I'm not aggressive; I've had girlfriends beat me up. You know when someone see's you and this look of disgust or disdain crosses their face? That's what it was like. I forged so many notes to skip it. He passed me only because he never wanted to see me again.

Kids are even worse. In the hallway, washroom, parking lot, assembly line, the teacher goes for a coffee while working in the classroom.. They never quit. It's like walking through a war zone sometimes and you never know when the enemy could strike. A long time ago (unconcious habit, maybe? I don't remember doing it) I trained myself not to use the washroom at school, I don't go anywhere near the cafeteria nor the gym/playing field outside. I remember about five years ago the teacher's came while I was getting the **** beat out of me - I ended up with a broken finger and bloody nose, etc - and we were both sent home for the day. Good fight, buddy, see you tomorrow.
Everyone knows, but no one really has the time to try and do anything about it because there's always something else going on.

I think the biggest problem with the school system itself is the people. Truth be told, I'm not sure it's ever going to be fixable because people just don't want to change.

~~bungalow~~ · 04-25-2010, 01:22 PM

who are you screech?

Aden · 04-26-2010, 01:54 PM

**Edit: The program is actually CTS (Carrer and Technolgy Studies) not cps.

Bungalow, if that was directed at me I've no idea what or who you're referring too..

04-23-2010, 01:28 PM	#55 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	^ Speaking of right-wing commentators... Glenn Beck says kids should be home schooled so the evil liberal agenda doesn't influence them in public schools. In other words, your kids should completely close their minds and let the Fox News-watching parents mold their minds. That pisses me off because it gives home schooling a bad name.

04-23-2010, 10:28 PM	#57 (permalink)
storymilo Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,845	^That article actually made me feel sick to my stomach.

04-25-2010, 11:12 AM	#58 (permalink)
Aden Groupie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 47	Interesting thread. First thing I found interesting were several choice words throughout - Liberal, Conservatives, Communism... Seems it is a bureaucracy. Anyways, letting kids pick their cirriculum? I don't know. I guess the first thing I'd be worried about is the work ethic that would develop. Kids these days don't like homework and will fight and moan about it, but it's gotta get done because the school system knows it's expected. Let them choose a program that's foot loose and fancy free, I wonder how much work would actually be getting done. Because, really, kids have better things to do these days then study or do homework. If it's a choice, I'd bet at least 75% kids wouldn't do it. And we're GOOD at making excuses. My school offers a few programs for kids in different levels (ex. Math Pure, Math Applied; Chem/Bio/Physics or Science) that sort of helps to teach at different levels. We've also got a CPS course (Carrer Planning...Something. Studies maybe) which is an optional course you can take instead of having spares. I took it, because the "cool" kids took spares and that'd give me WAY to much chance to run into them, but it was a neat program. Lots of little units in crazy things such as Enviromental Issues, Health Care system... Kind of little bits and peices of what you'd find in carreer choices. Each unit you complete gives you three credits. It's an OPTIONAL course, so it's pretty bare. Kids get to choose what they want to do, and work it their own pace. Now, some kids who don't have the option of getting spares are put into this course, and I've seen them ** around with the same unit for weeks on end and just not doing the work. Because it's not a graded class, you just get credits that'll add up for when you graduate. But I could see that happening a lot in "Unschooling". Not that public school is a god-send, by any means. It's ed, too. I just don't see how anyone could fix it. I don't mind the school work, per se, but being the loser than I am, I find the atmosphere reallly sucks, mostly with peers, some with teachers. I dropped out when I was 14 for two months, went back and had to work like a dog to catch up to everyone again. It was physics that I was having issues with and I just couldn't get it. I can't even remember what I was trying to learn, but I had stayed after class with the teacher so he could explain it to me better but just watching it being wrote wasn't really helping and he was looking at me like, ", you're a useless bastard". He had to go "hands on" instead of just writing it on the blackboard so I could get it and he was really frustrated, at the situation or me, I don't know, but I felt bad and I felt like crap cause I could see he didn't even want to deal with me. My ex-gym teacher couldn't stand me. I hate sports, and I hate gym. Again, you know, I think the loser roll comes into play cause there's nothing like tackle football to let the bullies really slam you and get away with it. I mean pile drive you into the ground with a kidney shot. But he was an aggressive teacher and that's what he liked to see. I'm not aggressive; I've had girlfriends beat me up. You know when someone see's you and this look of disgust or disdain crosses their face? That's what it was like. I forged so many notes to skip it. He passed me only because he never wanted to see me again. Kids are even worse. In the hallway, washroom, parking lot, assembly line, the teacher goes for a coffee while working in the classroom.. They never quit. It's like walking through a war zone sometimes and you never know when the enemy could strike. A long time ago (unconcious habit, maybe? I don't remember doing it) I trained myself not to use the washroom at school, I don't go anywhere near the cafeteria nor the gym/playing field outside. I remember about five years ago the teacher's came while I was getting the ** beat out of me - I ended up with a broken finger and bloody nose, etc - and we were both sent home for the day. Good fight, buddy, see you tomorrow. Everyone knows, but no one really has the time to try and do anything about it because there's always something else going on. I think the biggest problem with the school system itself is the people. Truth be told, I'm not sure it's ever going to be fixable because people just don't want to change.

04-25-2010, 01:22 PM	#59 (permalink)
~~bungalow~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hot-lanta Posts: 3,140	who are you screech?

04-26-2010, 01:54 PM	#60 (permalink)
Aden Groupie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 47	**Edit: The program is actually CTS (Carrer and Technolgy Studies) not cps. Bungalow, if that was directed at me I've no idea what or who you're referring too..