It's been close to a year... Thoughts on Obama

Yukon Cornelius · 04-01-2010, 10:35 PM

I feel with the reform that this is more than likely the first time the people were not heard, or rather not payed any attention to at all.

Let me start by saying that this does bring promise to struggling americans, but those on the boarder line will surely end up being rationed as well. My opinion on this (which is in fact mine) would be that it is going to push more americans to rely on our governments rations rather than working for a living. I personally feel this will push us closer into a socialist situation.

How? (This is opinion based Theory, All mine)

Well basically in my theory the government cannot control a free willed american as much as they will need to in order to call "All" the shots. So with our governement taxing the somewhat wealthy (who will obviously complain and look bad for it) to pay for this reform we are actually helping them gain 100% control of the low income section 8 people. How? Basically If I was to give you something for free you would like me, If I was to pay for your medical expenses you would love me, thus I would have a great deal of leverage over your thoughts and your voice, gaining control over a period of time until, I was your voice.

I'm not 100% sure how they will take out the people with very high incomes but I am positive they will. I assume some will be living beyond there means and slowly have to start settling for less over the years until finally they are in the same position as the rest of us. It may be tax hikes over and over until its unbearable or many other things.. Either way I'm just a touch curious on your thoughts and feelings in this matter since it will have a great impact on my kids and yours or eventually yours.

All ponder no proof... Just perceptions

Neapolitan · 04-01-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

I feel with the reform that this is more than likely the first time the people were not heard, or rather not payed any attention to at all.

Let me start by saying that this does bring promise to struggling americans, but those on the boarder line will surely end up being rationed as well. My opinion on this (which is in fact mine) would be that it is going to push more americans to rely on our governments rations rather than working for a living. I personally feel this will push us closer into a socialist situation.

All ponder no proof... Just perceptions

"The mill of the gods grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly fine"

Yukon Cornelius · 04-01-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

"The mill of the gods grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly fine"

You should cite your quotes... tis tis

Neapolitan · 04-02-2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

You should cite your quotes... tis tis

I should, but I think the name of the person who said orinigally is lost to antiquity. I personally don't like to talk politics and economic philosophies, it's just an observation. I said it because America is slowly turning Socialist state.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 04-01-2010, 11:02 PM

I VoTED GRAVEL.

duga · 04-02-2010, 01:04 PM

Yeah, I love how everyone has demonized the word socialism. Just like they did with communism. Guess what, those are simply forms of government...not evil regimes bent on enslaving everyone. Communism didn't work, but it tried. You know what other form of government doesn't work? Capitalism. Just take a look at how many times our economy has collapsed in the past century. Something tells me we could do with some improvement.

It's socialism. Get over it.

Inuzuka Skysword · 04-03-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Yeah, I love how everyone has demonized the word socialism. Just like they did with communism. Guess what, those are simply forms of government...not evil regimes bent on enslaving everyone. Communism didn't work, but it tried. You know what other form of government doesn't work? Capitalism. Just take a look at how many times our economy has collapsed in the past century. Something tells me we could do with some improvement.

I would just like to point out that saying capitalism doesn't work because of what has happened here in America is just as foolish as saying Russia's collapse proves that socialism doesn't work.

duga · 04-03-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

I would just like to point out that saying capitalism doesn't work because of what has happened here in America is just as foolish as saying Russia's collapse proves that socialism doesn't work.

I could go into more detail if you would like me to, but I'd say a system where economic collapse is inherent is pretty flawed.

And I didn't say socialism doesn't work...nor did I mention Russia at all. I mentioned communism as an example as a tried and failed form of government...but it seems to work for China pretty well albeit in a highly modified way. I think the same could go for capitalism.

Inuzuka Skysword · 04-03-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I could go into more detail if you would like me to, but I'd say a system where economic collapse is inherent is pretty flawed.

And I didn't say socialism doesn't work...nor did I mention Russia at all. I mentioned communism as an example as a tried and failed form of government...but it seems to work for China pretty well albeit in a highly modified way. I think the same could go for capitalism.

I was using the comment about socialism/communism to show that the comment about capitalism that you made is flawed.

You have to look at why capitalism/communism is failing/succeeding in the country of X. You can't just say "Well, communism worked here, so it is a good economic system." When you do that, you are basing your argument more off of correlation, which is weak.

Also, how is economic collapse inherent in capitalism. Please don't use correlative arguments either because in the world of formal logic they don't really mean anything.

ProggyMan · 04-03-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

The point of my posts is to show that the way capitalism is run right now is not working. Adding a bit of socialism is what we need. Look up the fractional reserve system and you can see in plain writing how economic collapse is inherent. Not only is it apparent in writing, but we have seen it happen time and again, almost exactly when today's statisticians and economic supervisors predict it will happen.

And in no way was I correlating anything you mentioned. Read my posts again.

Quote:

I could go into more detail if you would like me to, but I'd say a system where economic collapse is inherent is pretty flawed.

And I didn't say socialism doesn't work...nor did I mention Russia at all. I mentioned communism as an example as a tried and failed form of government...but it seems to work for China pretty well albeit in a highly modified way. I think the same could go for capitalism.

Read more: http://www.musicbanter.com/newreply....#ixzz0k6epxMg5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

I would just like to point out that saying capitalism doesn't work because of what has happened here in America is just as foolish as saying Russia's collapse proves that socialism doesn't work.

Read the posts very, very carefully. He was just pointing out that saying because capitalism fails in America does not mean it is inherently flawed.

04-01-2010, 10:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	It's been close to a year... Thoughts on Obama I feel with the reform that this is more than likely the first time the people were not heard, or rather not payed any attention to at all. Let me start by saying that this does bring promise to struggling americans, but those on the boarder line will surely end up being rationed as well. My opinion on this (which is in fact mine) would be that it is going to push more americans to rely on our governments rations rather than working for a living. I personally feel this will push us closer into a socialist situation. How? (This is opinion based Theory, All mine) Well basically in my theory the government cannot control a free willed american as much as they will need to in order to call "All" the shots. So with our governement taxing the somewhat wealthy (who will obviously complain and look bad for it) to pay for this reform we are actually helping them gain 100% control of the low income section 8 people. How? Basically If I was to give you something for free you would like me, If I was to pay for your medical expenses you would love me, thus I would have a great deal of leverage over your thoughts and your voice, gaining control over a period of time until, I was your voice. I'm not 100% sure how they will take out the people with very high incomes but I am positive they will. I assume some will be living beyond there means and slowly have to start settling for less over the years until finally they are in the same position as the rest of us. It may be tax hikes over and over until its unbearable or many other things.. Either way I'm just a touch curious on your thoughts and feelings in this matter since it will have a great impact on my kids and yours or eventually yours. All ponder no proof... Just perceptions __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

04-02-2010, 01:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	Yeah, I love how everyone has demonized the word socialism. Just like they did with communism. Guess what, those are simply forms of government...not evil regimes bent on enslaving everyone. Communism didn't work, but it tried. You know what other form of government doesn't work? Capitalism. Just take a look at how many times our economy has collapsed in the past century. Something tells me we could do with some improvement. It's socialism. Get over it. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

04-01-2010, 11:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
~~Sansa Stark~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Eyrie, Vale of Arryn, Westeros Posts: 3,234	I VoTED GRAVEL.