someonecompletelyrandom

Calling somebody a Socialist is like calling somebody a Loyalist to the British Crown.

TheBig3

I'm not going to pay attention to conspiracy theories. The right likes to say that this is socialism. I like to say that we can move toward socialism without it being socialism. I don't think we've got anything close to socialism here in the U.S. because people will still die when this bill is put into effect. Far more than do in the european countries.

It was insurance reform, and I won't listen to those who champion the free market but then attempt to deny me what I pay for; that is, I pay for health care - you should be allowed to drop my coverage.

Obama isn't the Nazi's, we're not walking toward the destruction of the constitution or any of that ****. I voted for the man twice, and I stand by those votes. We're much better than we were in 07, and we're great in 09 compared to where we'd be if he'd lost.

__________________
I've moved to a new address

duga

I feel like keying all the cars in this hick state that have bumper stickers saying "impeach Obama Bin Laden".

Wtf has he done worth impeaching? It's fine if you don't agree with the guy, but if you really feel like he should be impeached you deserve a kick in the balls.

__________________
Confusion will be my epitaph...

Janszoon

Yeah, that and trying draw some kind of connection between him and a notorious terrorist based on them having a similar first name really smacks of xenophobia to me. They might as well just have a bumper sticker that says "Bigot On Board".

__________________
A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

crash_override

I love my home state, but there are a lot of conservatives there. Especially in the smaller southern towns.

__________________
My MB music journal

pourmeanother

I'm not even going to pretend I know any of the ins and outs of this bill, I just know it effects me as a small business owner... For the next few years I will receive a tax credit, but if I expand too much in the next 4 years I could be subject to penalties. Overall I think it has some holes, but it's a move in a positive direction [and is changeable if needed]...

__________________
Life is just blah, blah, blah
You hope for blah
And sometimes you find it, but mostly it's blah
And waiting for blah
And hoping you were right about the blahs you made
And then, just when you think you've got the whole blah'd damn thing figured out
And you're surrounded by the ones you blah
Death shows up... anddd blah, blah, blah.

duga

This is the way I look at it...the government wants my money. They take my money. This fact is obvious every time I get a paycheck. There are a lot of people complaining that the lower class is going to be taking our tax money for healthcare and not have to work for it while we have to. Well, you know what? I don't care. I would much rather know that my tax money is going to keeping people alive rather than killing more people in several wars I don't support.

__________________
Confusion will be my epitaph...

Guybrush

Socialism works really well where I'm at which is also one of the richest countries in the world. From across the pond, the health insurance thingamabob looks like a step in the right direction. For those who can't see it's worth, the value of it will be more appearant when X amount of years have passed.

__________________
Something Completely Different

Freebase Dali

Well, you guys are like the 3rd or 4th largest exporters of oil, am I right? For a long time now too. Not that it has everything to do with it, but it certainly helps. Heh.. us folk in the U.S. aren't even in the top 10. Not to mention the bass ackward government spending we're up to our necks in... Especially with programs that have thus far only proven to expand our deficit and provide absolutely no debt benefit in this current administration, which is really the first thing that needs to be taken care of if we even want to have the ability to fund universal health care without jacking taxation up with no reciprocal benefit to the other areas of life where we must pay out the money we earn.

Anyway, just a curious question here... But how do you feel about your taxation? And do you feel it's justified by the benefits you receive? And finally, do you feel that there is any danger of [physically] able workers placing exceedingly less emphasis on having jobs when government support will virtually guarantee their stay?

Guybrush

Yes, I'm definetly happy and I've been very much on the recieving end of government funding my whole life. Much of my free education has been government sponsored beyond the fact it's free for example by including cruises up in the arctic to the north pole ice for a value of hundreds of thousands of NOKs - a lot of money. When I was a teenager, I worked and helped run a cafè which was basically run by teenagers and young adults in a government building, the old post office in the town I'm from. We didn't pay rent for it, it was borrowed to us for free and the office of culture actually gave us money, a rough equivalent to 2000 USD one year to spend on arranging concerts. The idea from their point of view was of course to get more gigs for local bands.

Next year, I might study pedagogy for a year so I can get work as a teacher as something to fall back on if I can't get work as a biologist. The government wants more teachers, so if I pass all my exams that year, that means I'll get taxfree about 15000 USD to see me through that year. Since me and my GF are already living in student housing, rent is relatively cheap compared to living elsewhere, so that means I can get by on government funding without having to get a job .. which is basically what I'm doing now as well.

I've also recieved a lot of free health care which includes simple surgery and a number of other little things. When I was a kid, my mother got paid time off work to take care of us for example.

To americans, I bet I sound like quite the freeloader The way I feel is that the taxes I'll be paying when I'm hopefully working as a biologist will give back what the government has already given me. Once I've payed back what I owe society, and that might take a while, I'll gladly pay my taxes so that my kids and other people as well can live in the kind of society I grew up in. My father who's been working most his life and has paid back many times over in taxes what the government has spent on him feels the same way.

In a functioning socialist country, the government is a benefactor. Here, it helps people get the education they want, give them free medical care under pregnancy, lots of time off to young parents to take care of kids, make sure there are activities to partake in. Basically, it nurtures the people in the society. I think in return, people want to nurture society too. People here seldom complain about the high taxes.

You'd think we got a lot of freeloaders, but the relative unemployment rate in the US is actually 3 times higher than in Norway, from a little over 3% here to just under 10% in the US this year. This is not the source for that statement, but it shows a simple map which shows unemployment in countries. We're doing rather well in comparison to a lot of countries it seems.


I think to americans, socialism and it's benefits are not really appearant. I believe most don't really know what they are. If you read my post, you might read about something which seems unfamiliar. You've never really had socialism. Your government hasn't been a benefactor who gives you a top education for free or free health care. If it was possible to make a sudden shift to socialism, that would make some people net losers because they would not have recieved much in the past and are suddenly forced to give. Years after the shift, ideally, everyone would be benefactors.

Norway is a good country for socialism because we have money, but a lot of those oil cash are actually tucked away for the rainy days when our oil is gone and we may not have other natural resources to sell. People were happy before we got this wealthy and I think it's possible for the US as well. It's just that it requires a total change in perception of what the government is and should be, something that would probably take a while.

__________________
Something Completely Different