Cultural Imperialism and the Homogenization of the Western World

Guybrush · 02-15-2010, 06:10 PM

A few of us members here live in countries where english is not the first language. Something that our countries are likely to have in common is that they probably recieve a lot more culture from english speaking nations than they give back.

For example - because english is a world language, you get english speaking TV shows here like CSI, Cops, Keeping Up Appearances, Allo Allo and many, many more. These shows are mainly from USA, England and Australia. Most of them give us some kind of picture on what life is like in these countries and they have an effect on culture in Norway. However, norwegian is not a world language so while we recieve a lot of influences from outside, we don't really export it. Culture and media wise, it's almost like a one-way communication where we recieve influence and give none.

I think here, it has had a profound effect, even over a short period like the last decade. Although it's not exactly something that keeps me up at night, I do worry somewhat about negative cultural influences. Note that negative doesn't have to mean that they are negative in the english speaking countries they come from, but that I think they would be negative here

It can be little things, like the excess people recieve from Extreme Home Makeover. Families recieve charity houses that are bigger than what most norwegian millionaires have. Where America might have a culture where bigger and better is cool, we have a culture where down to earth and modesty has traditionally been cool. Many such things are changing now and will in the future as young people growing up are influenced by events, ideals and thoughts from outside our nation's borders.

Is it much the same where you're from or do you perhaps recieve culture from nations speaking a different language? Do you think stuff like this can over time homogenize the western world until it's culturally basically the same? What do you think about it?

mr dave · 02-15-2010, 08:04 PM

i don't think it's specific to non-english native language countries. media has a large and profound effect regardless of where you are. i think the homogenization will happen on a larger public social level, i also think it's somewhat necessary to eliminate preconceived notions and stereotypes about other cultures.

but on a personal level, there's no need to abandon or lose ones culture. i know my own culture and history because my mother and her family kept it alive. reading about it in school gave me factual knowledge but it's living it that keeps it going. but that takes time and effort, and it seems most would rather use political clout to legislate their cultural survival rather than just sitting down with their kids and living their culture with them. ultimately the survival of a culture is dependent on the prerogatives of the individuals of that culture.

on a public level no one can tell i'm not a native English speaking Canadian. some people think i even sound American (whatever that means), but on a personal level, i will always be double Frenchie. the fact that i can function in public 'widout tokking laik i avv raks in my moutt' isn't a denial of my heritage it's a reflection of my ability to adapt to modern expectations.

Neapolitan · 02-15-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

A few of us members here live in countries where English is not the first language. Something that our countries are likely to have in common is that they probably recieve a lot more culture from English speaking nations than they give back.

But you have admit English speaking countries recieve cultural influence from
other countries. I can't really agree that Norway had no influence, even though it might seem they do not contribute to world culture now, Norway had in the past an effect on countries like Ireland, England, France, Spain, Italy, and Russian to name a few. America has many regional accents, the rhotic American accents found in the Mid-Western and Mid-Atlantic can be trace back to Scandinavian influences, as opposed to the non-rhotic Southern and New England accents.

I'm always supprised and fascinated by two things, one is when I see something that is fimilar from non-English speaking country, and another is when I see something unfimilar from an English speaking country. Sometimes I'm impress that Scandinavian bands sing in English but sometimes I really wish they sang in their own lagnuage. I love watching programs and movies from the UK or Australia because it's so different from what I see in America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tore

For example - because english is a world language, you get english speaking TV shows here like CSI, Cops, Keeping Up Appearances, Allo Allo and many, many more. These shows are mainly from USA, England and Australia. Most of them give us some kind of picture on what life is like in these countrues and they have an effect on culture in Norway. However, norwegian is not a world language so while we recieve a lot of influences from outside, we don't really export it. Culture and media wise, it's almost like a one-way communication where we recieve influence and give none.

One way communication is called "simplex."
And what do you mean give none? What about ABBA and Death Metal??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tore

I think here, it has had a profound effect, even over a short period like the last decade. Although it's not exactly something that keeps me up at night, I do worry somewhat about negative cultural influences. Note that negative doesn't have to mean that they are negative in the english speaking countries they come from, but that I think they would be negative here

It can be little things, like the excess people recieve from Extreme Home Makeover. Families recieve charity houses that are bigger than what most norwegian millionaires have. Where America might have a culture where bigger and better is cool, we have a culture where down to earth and modesty has traditionally been cool. Many such things are changing now and will in the future as young people growing up are influenced by events, ideals and thoughts from outside our nation's borders.

There are a lot of Americans who have a down-to-Earth attitude; and there are a lot of snobbish pompous Americans too. There is no generalization of America that can be entirely true because in America you can find both extremes.
Hollywood doesn't accurately protrait America anyway, its main purpose is to present a highly polished commercial product. I heard a guy had to sell his house after he had a make over because he could afford the taxes, those shows aren't always a perfect fairy tale. American don't all live like kings in giant castles. Some American live in Trailor Parks, some live in their RVs some are trainsient that live inner cities and abandon house and tents in the woods, and parks. But if you take those who live in RVs some of them can cost up to a million dollars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tore

Is it much the same where you're from or do you perhaps recieve culture from nations speaking a different language? Do you think stuff like this can over time homogenize the western world until it's culturally basically the same? What do you think about it?

I can't imagine a homogenize Western world when there is so much difference within America let alone between America and the UK, Canada, or Australia.
I would hate to see a culturally homogenize West. I love the differences in all the European countries, I hate to see Europe become some sanitized PC world where a countries looses it's own cultural identity.

Zaqarbal · 03-11-2010, 02:58 PM

This is a very complex issue. It not only has to do with the number of speakers of a language, but also with Economy. For example, apart from the Anglosphere, there are, among other:

China: 1,300 mill.
India: 1,100 mill.
Hispanosphere: ~ 420 mill.
Francosphere: ~ 260 mill.
Lusosphere (Portuguese): ~ 200 mill.
Arab World: ~ 200 mill.

But Japan, with 127 million people, has a stronger influence in popular culture worldwide than that of those groups. And that's in part because of its big entertainment companies. Sometimes, the way we see things doesn't come from the English-speaking world.

Both culture and business have influence in world media. But, in what proportion? It is very difficult to say... And now all is changing due to Internet, the rise of China and India, etc.

The only certain thing is that the ways of cultural interaction are unpredictable. For instance, 60 years ago, no one could imagine that Italians would make Westerns. But they did. In fact, Clint Eastwood is in our minds (among many other things) wearing a poncho in Tabernas (Spain) while acting under the direction of a guy from Rome (and that music sounds...). You never know what can happen:

duga · 03-11-2010, 05:01 PM

I remember reading this when you first posted the thread, tore, but I was too tired to put any real thought into a response. I'm glad Zaqarbal decided to bump it. I'm always amazed at the topics you come up with...you really are an academic.

I feel privileged to have been able to travel around the world. My personal opinion is that this is the perfect time for everyone to experience other cultures. Most countries maintain their traditions and heritage, yet because there has been so much homogenization it has become very easy for someone not speaking a country's native language to experience it. The fact that English is the language that is becoming universal and whether or not it is diluting others is another argument entirely. I, however, appreciate it greatly and have infinite respect for the people who learn it when they don't have to. It makes me sad that it is the only language I know (which is a major criticism of Americans that I have). Since so many know it, it really helps lessen culture shock and I feel everyone needs to leave their comfort zone at least once in their lives.

Sadly, I mention all of this because globalization will only continue to expand and though there is a good balance at this point in history, it will eventually eradicate most of the cultures you are talking about. We are seeing the end of the mystery that is still out there. There are pros and cons to this, but it really makes me sad. There was something incredibly disturbing about seeing a Starbucks in the Forbidden City. This was a place where commoners could be killed for just looking upon the inside, and now your everyday trailer trash can stop by for a frap.

Sadly, there is nothing we can do to stop it. This thread proves it...I am here in the US talking to you in Spain, Canada, Norway...wherever you all are from. The world is getting smaller. Liken it to a company downsizing for efficiency. Sure, profits will go up, the company will eventually expand, and the wealth can be spread around more. But there will always be the sad people that have just been laid off.

Guybrush · 03-11-2010, 06:07 PM

^duga, glad you like the thread

I agree with basically everything you've written as well.

Hehe, after reading Neapolitan's post the last time I dropped by this thread, I couldn't be arsed writing a reply because I didn't want to spend all my time correcting misconceptions about my opening post as I feel having to do that takes so much fun out of discussions, but ..

I have some left over energy now, so I will give it a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neapolitan

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

A few of us members here live in countries where English is not the first language. Something that our countries are likely to have in common is that they probably recieve a lot more culture from English speaking nations than they give back.

But you have admit English speaking countries recieve cultural influence from
other countries. I can't really agree that Norway had no influence, even though it might seem they do not contribute to world culture now, Norway had in the past an effect on countries like Ireland, England, France, Spain, Italy, and Russian to name a few. America has many regional accents, the rhotic American accents found in the Mid-Western and Mid-Atlantic can be trace back to Scandinavian influences, as opposed to the non-rhotic Southern and New England accents.

I'm always supprised and fascinated by two things, one is when I see something that is fimilar from non-English speaking country, and another is when I see something unfimilar from an English speaking country. Sometimes I'm impress that Scandinavian bands sing in English but sometimes I really wish they sang in their own lagnuage. I love watching programs and movies from the UK or Australia because it's so different from what I see in America.

Of course I admit that Norway and other countries where english is not the first language also have influence on the world. Read the sentence you quoted from me, you'll see it says "recieve a lot more culture than they give back". That means there is a trading of culture both ways, but that it's uneven.

Lots of norwegian bands and artists sing in norwegian, but that music only extremely rarely makes it's way out of the country - it doesn't sell abroad. To sell our culture, it helps to englishifize it somewhat first.

It's really part of the problem the thread is about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tore

For example - because english is a world language, you get english speaking TV shows here like CSI, Cops, Keeping Up Appearances, Allo Allo and many, many more. These shows are mainly from USA, England and Australia. Most of them give us some kind of picture on what life is like in these countrues and they have an effect on culture in Norway. However, norwegian is not a world language so while we recieve a lot of influences from outside, we don't really export it. Culture and media wise, it's almost like a one-way communication where we recieve influence and give none.

One way communication is called "simplex."
And what do you mean give none? What about ABBA and Death Metal??

Before "give none", I wrote "it's almost like" .. Almost like we give none, but not quite. Seriously man, you got to learn to pay more attention to what words are actually included in sentences and what they mean.

ABBA were swedish and you're probably thinking of Black Metal?

Black Metal is probably our number 1 cultural export. However, selling points aside, it's a part of our culture which has little to no bearing on the everyday lives of 99,9 and something percent of the population here .. It's influence is also largely regarded as negative, but at least it's something!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tore

I think here, it has had a profound effect, even over a short period like the last decade. Although it's not exactly something that keeps me up at night, I do worry somewhat about negative cultural influences. Note that negative doesn't have to mean that they are negative in the english speaking countries they come from, but that I think they would be negative here

It can be little things, like the excess people recieve from Extreme Home Makeover. Families recieve charity houses that are bigger than what most norwegian millionaires have. Where America might have a culture where bigger and better is cool, we have a culture where down to earth and modesty has traditionally been cool. Many such things are changing now and will in the future as young people growing up are influenced by events, ideals and thoughts from outside our nation's borders.

There are a lot of Americans who have a down-to-Earth attitude; and there are a lot of snobbish pompous Americans too. There is no generalization of America that can be entirely true because in America you can find both extremes.
Hollywood doesn't accurately protrait America anyway, its main purpose is to present a highly polished commercial product. I heard a guy had to sell his house after he had a make over because he could afford the taxes, those shows aren't always a perfect fairy tale. American don't all live like kings in giant castles. Some American live in Trailor Parks, some live in their RVs some are trainsient that live inner cities and abandon house and tents in the woods, and parks. But if you take those who live in RVs some of them can cost up to a million dollars.[/quote]

You have to remember that I'm comparing american culture as it is presented to me via the telly, movies, video games and so on to norwegian culture. We are influenced by the culture you export. The culture which is real but which we never see has little relevance to this discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tore

Is it much the same where you're from or do you perhaps recieve culture from nations speaking a different language? Do you think stuff like this can over time homogenize the western world until it's culturally basically the same? What do you think about it?

I can't imagine a homogenize Western world when there is so much difference within America let alone between America and the UK, Canada, or Australia.
I would hate to see a culturally homogenize West. I love the differences in all the European countries, I hate to see Europe become some sanitized PC world where a countries looses it's own cultural identity.

Agreed!

TheBig3 · 03-11-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Is it much the same where you're from or do you perhaps recieve culture from nations speaking a different language? Do you think stuff like this can over time homogenize the western world until it's culturally basically the same? What do you think about it?

So those of us who speak English as the major language can't answer?

P A N · 03-11-2010, 11:48 PM

i think people are going to fight nature at first, having been stuck inside the perpetual regurgitations of leaders that have been preaching and successfully implementing the dogma and tactics of dominance for probably what amounts to centuries, imbuing us global citizens with something we liken to pride at the thought of our birth place. i believe patriotism is a big gun in the arsenal of those who seek to control the world in that it is in patriotism and these clingings-to of cultural identifiers that keep us all divided, and thusly competitive, and thusly complacent in a world full of planned obsolescence.

this sounds crazy, but if the world doesn't either take on english or something or even "invent" another globalized language, it's gonna get real hairy in the next 20-30 years. everyone is going everywhere, and half of life is digital.

i know it's nice to have these sentimental stabilizers, but i also firmly believe that pride gets in the way. people come up with terms like "homogenization" so that we have a tool to use as synonymous with an emotional reaction, appearing in reality to represent an objective standpoint aimed at sustaining the "way things have always been," effectively. but it looks to me as though the advent of the internet has created the basis for a global community, and one that will not stop growing and becoming more tightly knit and more CULTURALLY ONE... ever. technology will also bring us to places on the other side of the world in no time too, creating a physical unity of the human race to go along with the well-on-its-way-to-global perspective or "collective consciousness."

the ways that we do things are changing. a global language, in my mind, would serve as a road for the vehicles of human evolution.

ps. i'm from canada, and canada has no culture really, so we invited everybody over to share theirs in exchange for logging and seal clubbing lessons... they did, and we dig.

Guybrush · 03-12-2010, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

So those of us who speak English as the major language can't answer?

What do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zevokes

i think people are going to fight nature at first, having been stuck inside the perpetual regurgitations of leaders that have been preaching and successfully implementing the dogma and tactics of dominance for probably what amounts to centuries, imbuing us global citizens with something we liken to pride at the thought of our birth place.

I agree with a lot of what you write, but this sentence had me puzzled, basically because I have a hard time understanding what it means. What do you mean "fight nature"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zevokes

a global language, in my mind, would serve as a road for the vehicles of human evolution.

I take it you mean cultural evolution?

TheBig3 · 03-12-2010, 08:53 AM

Well when you say "English" I'm going to assume you get programing from all over the anglo-sphere. That being said, here's what i think about it.

The cultural values that are present here in America are certainly not uniform, nor would I imagine them to be in Canada, New Zealand, Austrailia, Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland, South Africa, or India (all apologies to those I've left out). In EHM, most often those houses are given to people with outstanding community service, severe medical issues, or that functions as a community hub. Ostensibly it looks as if America is in the business of handing out free, giant houses. We aren't.

But my overall point would be that English, and the culture that comes with it, shouldn't be viewed as an insular culture.To my knowledge, not country who speaks english as a major language has ever tried to standardize it, we've never had Academies that attempt to keep English, English, like the French and the Germans have.

We're a hodgepodge of culture in our own language. We never really shook things (and yes I think most americas would follow our history back to England) from Vikings, to Normans, The romans and its own imperlistic ventures abroad English has soaked up, like a rolling Blob, anything and everything thats stood in its path. For better or worse, we're not like msot countries.

And with the inception of America its only become a bigger pot. Be it inventions in the business sectors, or growing communities within our borders theres not been a move for cultural purity as there has been in some of the more "open-minded" nations out there. We may discuss the legality of immigrants, but never the the culture they have.

I don't know what to tell you. My experience as an American is that English is just a language, a vehicle for communication, and our language can't be traced back to other english speaking people from the same island we all associate it with. Its a moving target, so its hard for me to see us as foreign interlopers when you show our television stations.

02-15-2010, 06:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Cultural Imperialism and the Homogenization of the Western World A few of us members here live in countries where english is not the first language. Something that our countries are likely to have in common is that they probably recieve a lot more culture from english speaking nations than they give back. For example - because english is a world language, you get english speaking TV shows here like CSI, Cops, Keeping Up Appearances, Allo Allo and many, many more. These shows are mainly from USA, England and Australia. Most of them give us some kind of picture on what life is like in these countries and they have an effect on culture in Norway. However, norwegian is not a world language so while we recieve a lot of influences from outside, we don't really export it. Culture and media wise, it's almost like a one-way communication where we recieve influence and give none. I think here, it has had a profound effect, even over a short period like the last decade. Although it's not exactly something that keeps me up at night, I do worry somewhat about negative cultural influences. Note that negative doesn't have to mean that they are negative in the english speaking countries they come from, but that I think they would be negative here It can be little things, like the excess people recieve from Extreme Home Makeover. Families recieve charity houses that are bigger than what most norwegian millionaires have. Where America might have a culture where bigger and better is cool, we have a culture where down to earth and modesty has traditionally been cool. Many such things are changing now and will in the future as young people growing up are influenced by events, ideals and thoughts from outside our nation's borders. Is it much the same where you're from or do you perhaps recieve culture from nations speaking a different language? Do you think stuff like this can over time homogenize the western world until it's culturally basically the same? What do you think about it? __________________ Something Completely Different

03-11-2010, 02:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zaqarbal Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Spain Posts: 824	This is a very complex issue. It not only has to do with the number of speakers of a language, but also with Economy. For example, apart from the Anglosphere, there are, among other: China: 1,300 mill. India: 1,100 mill. Hispanosphere: ~ 420 mill. Francosphere: ~ 260 mill. Lusosphere (Portuguese): ~ 200 mill. Arab World: ~ 200 mill. But Japan, with 127 million people, has a stronger influence in popular culture worldwide than that of those groups. And that's in part because of its big entertainment companies. Sometimes, the way we see things doesn't come from the English-speaking world. Both culture and business have influence in world media. But, in what proportion? It is very difficult to say... And now all is changing due to Internet, the rise of China and India, etc. The only certain thing is that the ways of cultural interaction are unpredictable. For instance, 60 years ago, no one could imagine that Italians would make Westerns. But they did. In fact, Clint Eastwood is in our minds (among many other things) wearing a poncho in Tabernas (Spain) while acting under the direction of a guy from Rome (and that music sounds...). You never know what can happen: __________________ "Lullabies for adults / crossed by the years / carry the flower of disappointment / tattooed in their gloomy melodies." Last edited by Zaqarbal; 03-11-2010 at 03:14 PM. Reason: One link added

03-11-2010, 05:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I remember reading this when you first posted the thread, tore, but I was too tired to put any real thought into a response. I'm glad Zaqarbal decided to bump it. I'm always amazed at the topics you come up with...you really are an academic. I feel privileged to have been able to travel around the world. My personal opinion is that this is the perfect time for everyone to experience other cultures. Most countries maintain their traditions and heritage, yet because there has been so much homogenization it has become very easy for someone not speaking a country's native language to experience it. The fact that English is the language that is becoming universal and whether or not it is diluting others is another argument entirely. I, however, appreciate it greatly and have infinite respect for the people who learn it when they don't have to. It makes me sad that it is the only language I know (which is a major criticism of Americans that I have). Since so many know it, it really helps lessen culture shock and I feel everyone needs to leave their comfort zone at least once in their lives. Sadly, I mention all of this because globalization will only continue to expand and though there is a good balance at this point in history, it will eventually eradicate most of the cultures you are talking about. We are seeing the end of the mystery that is still out there. There are pros and cons to this, but it really makes me sad. There was something incredibly disturbing about seeing a Starbucks in the Forbidden City. This was a place where commoners could be killed for just looking upon the inside, and now your everyday trailer trash can stop by for a frap. Sadly, there is nothing we can do to stop it. This thread proves it...I am here in the US talking to you in Spain, Canada, Norway...wherever you all are from. The world is getting smaller. Liken it to a company downsizing for efficiency. Sure, profits will go up, the company will eventually expand, and the wealth can be spread around more. But there will always be the sad people that have just been laid off. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

03-12-2010, 08:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	Well when you say "English" I'm going to assume you get programing from all over the anglo-sphere. That being said, here's what i think about it. The cultural values that are present here in America are certainly not uniform, nor would I imagine them to be in Canada, New Zealand, Austrailia, Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland, South Africa, or India (all apologies to those I've left out). In EHM, most often those houses are given to people with outstanding community service, severe medical issues, or that functions as a community hub. Ostensibly it looks as if America is in the business of handing out free, giant houses. We aren't. But my overall point would be that English, and the culture that comes with it, shouldn't be viewed as an insular culture.To my knowledge, not country who speaks english as a major language has ever tried to standardize it, we've never had Academies that attempt to keep English, English, like the French and the Germans have. We're a hodgepodge of culture in our own language. We never really shook things (and yes I think most americas would follow our history back to England) from Vikings, to Normans, The romans and its own imperlistic ventures abroad English has soaked up, like a rolling Blob, anything and everything thats stood in its path. For better or worse, we're not like msot countries. And with the inception of America its only become a bigger pot. Be it inventions in the business sectors, or growing communities within our borders theres not been a move for cultural purity as there has been in some of the more "open-minded" nations out there. We may discuss the legality of immigrants, but never the the culture they have. I don't know what to tell you. My experience as an American is that English is just a language, a vehicle for communication, and our language can't be traced back to other english speaking people from the same island we all associate it with. Its a moving target, so its hard for me to see us as foreign interlopers when you show our television stations. __________________ I've moved to a new address

03-11-2010, 11:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
P A N DO LIKE YOU. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 629	i think people are going to fight nature at first, having been stuck inside the perpetual regurgitations of leaders that have been preaching and successfully implementing the dogma and tactics of dominance for probably what amounts to centuries, imbuing us global citizens with something we liken to pride at the thought of our birth place. i believe patriotism is a big gun in the arsenal of those who seek to control the world in that it is in patriotism and these clingings-to of cultural identifiers that keep us all divided, and thusly competitive, and thusly complacent in a world full of planned obsolescence. this sounds crazy, but if the world doesn't either take on english or something or even "invent" another globalized language, it's gonna get real hairy in the next 20-30 years. everyone is going everywhere, and half of life is digital. i know it's nice to have these sentimental stabilizers, but i also firmly believe that pride gets in the way. people come up with terms like "homogenization" so that we have a tool to use as synonymous with an emotional reaction, appearing in reality to represent an objective standpoint aimed at sustaining the "way things have always been," effectively. but it looks to me as though the advent of the internet has created the basis for a global community, and one that will not stop growing and becoming more tightly knit and more CULTURALLY ONE... ever. technology will also bring us to places on the other side of the world in no time too, creating a physical unity of the human race to go along with the well-on-its-way-to-global perspective or "collective consciousness." the ways that we do things are changing. a global language, in my mind, would serve as a road for the vehicles of human evolution. ps. i'm from canada, and canada has no culture really, so we invited everybody over to share theirs in exchange for logging and seal clubbing lessons... they did, and we dig.