Do you believe in ghosts?

s_k · 03-07-2011, 08:19 AM

I'm pretty sure I've felt the precense of a deceased uncle of mine.
I can't tell you how, but I'm sure he was there.

And I've been in a church a couple of years ago.
I was listening to a choir, holding on to a railing.
All of a sudden I felt someone touch my hands and pull them.
I looked at my hands and didn't see a thing.
It happened again, and again.
I let go of the railing and felt a push in my back while I was dragged outside by my shoulders. I told my parents I would be outside and ran away, very quickly.
Not going back into a church again because of that.

My mom was riding her bike one day at exactly the same spot where I often felt the precense of that uncle.
She doesn't know that.
She had the feeling as if someone was pulling her bike so she would go slower. She didn't see anyone, but as soon as she wanted to go faster, she felt something holding her back. Days later we found out she had problems with her hart and had to take it really very easy.
She's fine now by the way

.

I also know things I can't know about that deceased uncle.
I know he has been threatened by people because of money issues, I know what his house looked like.
I have never been there. There are not pictures.

So yeah, I'm pretty convinced there's more than we know.
And I guess (and hope) that the ghosts, spirits of deceased people are all still here.
Seems like a fun idea. Loads of space for everyone

RVCA · 03-07-2011, 02:21 PM

Oh c'mon, really? Ghosts? It shocks me to read through this thread and see how many of you actually lend the existence of ghosts some credibility...

CanwllCorfe · 03-07-2011, 02:48 PM

That is awesome! I've actually had some weird stuff happen here at my house. The other night the TV came on in the middle of the night and it was LOUD. And then I found out that when my stepdad and his friend were in the basement, they heard footsteps up in the house when they were the only ones here. Stuff gets knocked over quite a bit which is always fun. Most recent was the iron off of the living room table.

EDIT: In reference to ThePhanastasio

duga · 03-07-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

Oh c'mon, really? Ghosts? It shocks me to read through this thread and see how many of you actually lend the existence of ghosts some credibility...

So you've read the thread...have you actually paid attention to the stories people are posting? Whether you believe or not, people obviously have unexplainable things happen to them. This is the thing that pisses me off most about people who don't believe in them. There is no explanation offered, just a "Wow, you are stupid" kind of response. Way to have an open mind.

I don't really want to go into the visible spectrum again. Souls and spirituality aren't the only explanations for these things, but something is happening.

CanwllCorfe · 03-07-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I don't really want to go into the visible spectrum again. Souls and spirituality aren't the only explanations for these things, but something is happening.

Exactly.

s_k · 03-07-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

It shocks me to read through this thread

No you haven't.

RVCA · 03-07-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

but something is happening.

You're a scientist. You should know that if "something is happening" we should be able to test it in some manner and acquire some kind of evidence for whatever "it" is. I mean, c'mon, we live in an age where most people in advanced societies carry in their pocket a device that captures both picture and video, but unshockingly, have yet to see any sort of conclusive evidence for ANYTHING supernatural. I'm sorry but anecdotal scare stories simply do not cut it.

duga · 03-07-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

You're a scientist. You should know that if "something is happening" we should be able to test it in some manner and acquire some kind of evidence for whatever "it" is. I mean, c'mon, we live in an age where most people in advanced societies carry in their pocket a device that captures both picture and video, but unshockingly, have yet to see any sort of conclusive evidence for ANYTHING supernatural. I'm sorry but anecdotal scare stories simply do not cut it.

Do you have a way to test dark matter? Science knows it's there, but we have no way to test it. You are assuming that because we don't currently have a way to test this, we never will. That's not true at all.

I think people are quick to dismiss the fact that we only have 5 senses. There are animals with other senses that we don't have. We are left with only the senses that are important for survival. We experience such a small percentage of reality that it becomes poor science to exclude the possibility of the mind impacting the world in a detectable way. I think that's fairly scientific reasoning. That's my hypothesis. We may not currently have the tools to test it, but who is to say we won't eventually?

Now this is off topic, but I have to say it. People have this idea that scientists have to restrict themselves to nothing but currently accepted ideas. None of the greatest discoveries have been made that way. Thinking small is fine for making inches of progress each year, but it takes some truly outrageous ideas to make the big finds. I only mention this because it's really sad to see future scientists restrict themselves. Think creatively and use science as a guide. I'm not saying all scientists should believe in ghosts, but I am saying all scientists should admit the possibility they exist until it is proven that they don't.

RVCA · 03-07-2011, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

Do you have a way to test dark matter? Science knows it's there, but we have no way to test it. You are assuming that because we don't currently have a way to test this, we never will. That's not true at all.

I don't think this is a fair comparison. First of all, science doesn't "know" dark matter/energy is there: they hypothesize that it exists based on observations of the universe. Second, they ARE testing for dark matter (LHC as one example), but these tests remain inconclusive as of yet.

Quote:

I think people are quick to dismiss the fact that we only have 5 senses. There are animals with other senses that we don't have. We are left with only the senses that are important for survival. We experience such a small percentage of reality that it becomes poor science to exclude the possibility of the mind impacting the world in a detectable way. I think that's fairly scientific reasoning. That's my hypothesis. We may not currently have the tools to test it, but who is to say we won't eventually?

Yes, I saw you mention this earlier in the thread. There's no evidence that God exists, there's no evidence that fairies exist, there's no evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists, and there's no evidence that ghosts exist. There is literally an infinite number of imaginary things that COULD exist beyond our realm of perception/detection. It's logical enough to say that things that don't make sense and that there's no evidence for probably don't exist. You don't need empirical evidence for that.

Quote:

Now this is off topic, but I have to say it. People have this idea that scientists have to restrict themselves to nothing but currently accepted ideas. None of the greatest discoveries have been made that way. Thinking small is fine for making inches of progress each year, but it takes some truly outrageous ideas to make the big finds. I only mention this because it's really sad to see future scientists restrict themselves. Think creatively and use science as a guide. I'm not saying all scientists should believe in ghosts, but I am saying all scientists should admit the possibility they exist until it is proven that they don't.

See above

Freebase Dali · 03-07-2011, 10:12 PM

I'm more apt to attribute "ghostly" experiences to a physiological component of our own makeup and resulting reactions of perceptions, but I certainly can't rule out the possibility of something more existing outside of our personal perceptions.
If I were to be as objective as possible, I would say that there exists more evidence of human fallacy in regards to perception and experience, than evidence of something outside that limitation. The fact that there are many humans with psychological disorders whose perceptual reality is much, much more different than those of us without them, does more than hint at the power of our own minds in dictating what we think we know, even if we haven't given it a name and institutionalized it. But in the end, we're still limited by a system whose very nature is, at all times, susceptible to error. As a result, we're more often left with obscurities we believe in, rather than are truly able to prove without reliance on that system.

I think it's totally fine if one person believes in something another doesn't. All that does is make a stronger case for the fact that we're pretty much all at the mercy of what our own perceptions dictate, and that it's mostly completely independent of any sort of objective standard that we can rely on, due to the fact that anything we rely on uses the same faulty system.

Believe what you want. That's the only answer here.

03-07-2011, 08:19 AM	#51 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	I'm pretty sure I've felt the precense of a deceased uncle of mine. I can't tell you how, but I'm sure he was there. And I've been in a church a couple of years ago. I was listening to a choir, holding on to a railing. All of a sudden I felt someone touch my hands and pull them. I looked at my hands and didn't see a thing. It happened again, and again. I let go of the railing and felt a push in my back while I was dragged outside by my shoulders. I told my parents I would be outside and ran away, very quickly. Not going back into a church again because of that. My mom was riding her bike one day at exactly the same spot where I often felt the precense of that uncle. She doesn't know that. She had the feeling as if someone was pulling her bike so she would go slower. She didn't see anyone, but as soon as she wanted to go faster, she felt something holding her back. Days later we found out she had problems with her hart and had to take it really very easy. She's fine now by the way . I also know things I can't know about that deceased uncle. I know he has been threatened by people because of money issues, I know what his house looked like. I have never been there. There are not pictures. So yeah, I'm pretty convinced there's more than we know. And I guess (and hope) that the ghosts, spirits of deceased people are all still here. Seems like a fun idea. Loads of space for everyone __________________ Click here to see my collection

03-07-2011, 02:48 PM	#53 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	That is awesome! I've actually had some weird stuff happen here at my house. The other night the TV came on in the middle of the night and it was LOUD. And then I found out that when my stepdad and his friend were in the basement, they heard footsteps up in the house when they were the only ones here. Stuff gets knocked over quite a bit which is always fun. Most recent was the iron off of the living room table. EDIT: In reference to ThePhanastasio __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

03-07-2011, 02:21 PM	#52 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270	Oh c'mon, really? Ghosts? It shocks me to read through this thread and see how many of you actually lend the existence of ghosts some credibility...

03-07-2011, 10:12 PM	#60 (permalink)
Freebase Dali Partying on the inside Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,584	I'm more apt to attribute "ghostly" experiences to a physiological component of our own makeup and resulting reactions of perceptions, but I certainly can't rule out the possibility of something more existing outside of our personal perceptions. If I were to be as objective as possible, I would say that there exists more evidence of human fallacy in regards to perception and experience, than evidence of something outside that limitation. The fact that there are many humans with psychological disorders whose perceptual reality is much, much more different than those of us without them, does more than hint at the power of our own minds in dictating what we think we know, even if we haven't given it a name and institutionalized it. But in the end, we're still limited by a system whose very nature is, at all times, susceptible to error. As a result, we're more often left with obscurities we believe in, rather than are truly able to prove without reliance on that system. I think it's totally fine if one person believes in something another doesn't. All that does is make a stronger case for the fact that we're pretty much all at the mercy of what our own perceptions dictate, and that it's mostly completely independent of any sort of objective standard that we can rely on, due to the fact that anything we rely on uses the same faulty system. Believe what you want. That's the only answer here.