Do you believe in ghosts?

CrazyVegn · 07-11-2013, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

So open that any idea or belief is welcome in there, no matter how crazy?

Yup, with the possibility of other dimensions in mind, for example...

Guybrush · 07-11-2013, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyVegn

Yup, with the possibility of other dimensions in mind, for example...

Without any sort of quality control filtering out the likely from the unlikely, you are at great risk of believing in something which is not true. Does that not bother you?

CrazyVegn · 07-11-2013, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Without any sort of quality control filtering out the likely from the unlikely, you are at great risk of believing in something which is not true. Does that not bother you?

Who says I don't have a filter? If nothing happens, nothing happens. I'm going to act like normally. My senses are very in tune and I know how to not expect anything when I am, if nothing's there. Um, I have been alive for quite awhile and been through old, old establishments and walked away with thousands of impressions from all senses and have a pretty good idea what feels right and what doesn't.
The "risk (of what IDK) is greater" to not believe (you unfairly shut the door on yourself in my eyes) in something that could be true.

Guybrush · 07-11-2013, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyVegn

The "risk (of what IDK) is greater" to not believe (you unfairly shut the door on yourself in my eyes) in something that could be true.

The risk is of you being wrong, of you investing yourself in fantasies as if they are real. It could very well be that you don't mind taking that risk because believing in a fantasy is okay with you, but I am not okay with that. I want my idea of the universe to be as close as possible to the actual truth.

If I believe in the general idea of ghosts, that means believing that human consciousness can exist independent of physical matter as we know it today. It means believing that things with an ethereal existence can manipulate matter or enter the minds of others. It means there is some resemblance of life after death. Depending on what I believe the nature of ghosts to be, many more assumptions will have to follow. None of these assumptions currently have much credibility as they are not supported by evidence and each one of them could be wrong. In other words, believing in ghosts is likely to lead me to make many wrong assumptions about the universe.

CrazyVegn · 07-11-2013, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

The risk is of you being wrong, of you investing yourself in fantasies as if they are real. It could very well be that you don't mind taking that risk because believing in a fantasy is okay with you, but I am not okay with that. I want my idea of the universe to be as close as possible to the actual truth.

My idea of the universe is closer to the truth than yours is bc I didnt shut any doors on myself. No, Im not okay w fantasies - I prefer the tangible and I am a truthseeker who knows no bounds to uncover it.
Einstein said that the past, present, and future are all happening at once which can explain paranormal.

Quote:

If I believe in the general idea of ghosts, that means believing that human consciousness can exist independent of physical matter as we know it today. It means believing that things with an ethereal existence can manipulate matter or enter the minds of others. It means there is some resemblance of life after death. Depending on what I believe the nature of ghosts to be, many more assumptions will have to follow. None of these assumptions currently have much credibility as they are not supported by evidence and each one of them could be wrong. In other words, believing in ghosts is likely to lead me to make many wrong assumptions about the universe.

Guybrush · 07-11-2013, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyVegn

My idea of the universe is closer to the truth than yours is bc I didnt shut any doors on myself. No, Im not okay w fantasies - I prefer the tangible and I am a truthseeker who knows no bounds to uncover it.

Let's say you have 100 conflicting beliefs the universe. One of them is correct. You don't get the right idea about the universe by unquestioningly accepting the 99 false ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyVegn

Einstein said that the past, present, and future are all happening at once which can explain paranormal.

He did? Do you have a source to back that up?

Einstein said "people like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion".

Do you know what he was commenting when he said that, what he was referring to? There is no present because the now is what you perceive, but your perception is lagged. By the time the light of an event has happened reaches your eyes and is converted into information by your brain, the event has already happened. So we are never actually experiencing a present. And while two events may seem like they take place at the same time from one reference point, the events will look like they take place at separate times from other reference points.

There's more to it, but long story short, it doesn't really relate to day to day paranormal going-ons.

You shouldn't just pull quotes out of the air unless you understand them, especially not from physicists. You are aware that physics, particularly quantum physics, is the most mistreated "scientific" explanation of all? Its mystery coupled with difficulty to understand makes it a favorite go-to for healers, ghost hunters and others who needs a little scientific credibility and don't have the understanding to see how silly it is.

edit :

Because I like the topic, I think I can illustrate how everything happens at the same time. Think of events happening, and time/history if you will, as a music on a tape loop. What you can hear of that music depends on where you place the reader, as it were. Lets just say you place the reader in the middle of the tape. You hear the music playing in the middle of the tape, but the tape is still moving before the reader and after the reader. Had you placed the reader in a different place, you would have heard the music before or after the middle. In other words, the whole tape is playing at once, but you're only perceiving it from one place. In a similar way, all events in our universe are playing, but we happen to be reading events at a specific place on the "time tape" (the "present"). If you were placed in what we think of as the past, the future wouldn't somehow pause, it would still be playing.

Also, the time tape plays for us at a certain speed, but that speed is relative and can be slowed down by going extremely fast. So if you go super fast, time passes slower.

I can't say for sure because it's all a bit difficult - and perhaps time shouldn't be described as a loop, but I think this is along the lines of what Einstein was thinking.

CrazyVegn · 07-11-2013, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Let's say you have 100 conflicting beliefs the universe. One of them is correct. You don't get the right idea about the universe by unquestioningly accepting the 99 false ones.

It is NOT that simple...
You believe in one thing; that ghosts aren't real, not even that they might not be real.
I believe in four things; that ghosts might not be real and that they might be real.
You have more risk of believing in something that is untrue than I do, as a result.

Quote:

He did? Do you have a source to back that up?

The following tells you provided it as you seem to have more time on your hands than I do to argue in circles about something you have no proof DOESN'T exist. I read your similar long-winded opinions on rape in that thread and decided I don't agree with those either days ago, TBH and saw how you browbeat your opponent into believing he was less intelligent and uninformed for having his own, separate belief. Unfortunately I am not going to give you any leeway or hat tipping for having what I consider to be tunnel vision...
My instincts are telling me something is wrong here and I'm going to have to ask you to refrain from interacting/socializing, and communicating with me in any way, shape, or form from hereon.

Any reply after the fact I will ignore so don't mistake it for silently agreeing. Like I said I refuse to adopt a narrower field of vision by closing any doors on the matter.

Quote:

Einstein said "people like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion".

Do you know what he was commenting when he said that, what he was referring to? There is no present because the now is what you perceive, but your perception is lagged. By the time the light of an event has happened reaches your eyes and is converted into information by your brain, the event has already happened. So we are never actually experiencing a present. And while two events may seem like they take place at the same time from one reference point, the events will look like they take place at separate times from other reference points.

There's more to it, but long story short, it doesn't really relate to day to day paranormal going-ons.

You shouldn't just pull quotes out of the air unless you understand them,

The problem with control freaks is they fail to understand I can and should defend what I stand for if I very well please. It is my opinion, regardless of not being similar to yours, and I am allowed to have them as is anyone else with those different from yours. Please tell me you can accept this as I would be relieved to find I am wrong about you...

Quote:

especially not from physicists. You are aware that physics, particularly quantum physics, is the most mistreated "scientific" explanation of all? Its mystery coupled with difficulty to understand makes it a favorite go-to for healers, ghost hunters and others who needs a little scientific credibility and don't have the understanding to see how silly it is.

Again, people whose viewpoints differ from yours are not silly. The fantasy/misconception everything is black and white and can be put into boxes through science is false. Watch the video I first pasted in this thread. Nobody knows everything, despite numbers, and there are things going on about the universe we do not understand and I am okay with that. It is an open book for me and my mind, a blank canvas, to form my own interpretations the way I want. The truth is stranger than fiction, said Mark Twain. To me this means the explanation may be stranger than ghosts and why I suggested other dimensions, and Einstein's time theory. I hope you speaking on his behalf is really his line of thinking and not your own, because the way I understand it is both "your" interpretation of his quote and the possibility we leave emotional imprints behind...

Quote:

edit :

Because I like the topic, I think I can illustrate how everything happens at the same time. Think of events happening, and time/history if you will, as a music on a tape loop. What you can hear of that music depends on where you place the reader, as it were. Lets just say you place the reader in the middle of the tape. You hear the music playing in the middle of the tape, but the tape is still moving before the reader and after the reader. Had you placed the reader in a different place, you would have heard the music before or after the middle. In other words, the whole tape is playing at once, but you're only perceiving it from one place. In a similar way, all events in our universe are playing, but we happen to be reading events at the place on the "time tape" where we exist. If you were placed in what we think of as the past, the future wouldn't somehow pause, it would still be playing. The time tape plays for us at a certain speed, but that speed is relative and can be slowed down by going extremely fast. If you go super fast, time passes slower.

I can't say for sure because it's all a bit difficult, but I think this is something along the lines of what Einstein was thinking of.

Ok this just told me what I suspected, ugh.
Have a nice day and life though. It's 5 AM here. Remember what I "said"/typed in color...

djchameleon · 07-11-2013, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I can't say for sure because it's all a bit difficult - and perhaps time shouldn't be described as a loop, but I think this is along the lines of what Einstein was thinking.

I watched the movie Looper. It's perfectly fine to describe time as a loop.

The Batlord · 07-11-2013, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyVegn

The following tells you provided it as you seem to have more time on your hands than I do to argue in circles about something you have no proof DOESN'T exist. I read your similar long-winded opinions on rape in that thread and decided I don't agree with those either days ago, TBH and saw how you browbeat your opponent into believing he was less intelligent and uninformed for having his own, separate belief. Unfortunately I am not going to give you any leeway or hat tipping for having what I consider to be tunnel vision...

I could give a **** about getting into this argument, but this pisses me off. You seem to lack a legitimate argument, so instead you basically just call Tore a loser for "having more time on his hands than you do". That's ****ing pathetic. If you have nothing to say then don't say anything, but don't take it out on other people like that.

Edit: I don't even know why I just let a troll bate me. Still, I'm not going to delete this, just because I think she needs to get called out for what she said to Tore.

Stephen · 07-11-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyVegn

Again, people whose viewpoints differ from yours are not silly.

I believe he was saying the misuse of the word quantum to sell any manner of fruit-loopery is what was silly.