The Vietnam War

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 10-16-2009, 08:21 PM

It's not a current event, thats for sure. But it was once the most polarizing topic in America, and it continues to stir debate and controversy today. I'm sure that most of us know the reasons for, and the outcome of the war.

Practices on both sides of the conflict were appalling, both sides killed innocent people in cold blood. I'm sure I don't have to eleborate,

Personally I feel sympathetic for the Veterans that returned, only to be harrassed and made the subject of hatred. Most of them did no wrong, many of them acted out of duty, and yet were tormented by what took place there for years. I actually have a lot of family that served.

What is your opinion of this war? Although it was a failure, was the effort exerted into it (human lives being the most prominate resource sacraficed) worth what they were trying to accomplish (containment of communism)? Or do you think (like I do) that red paranoia led to one of the most massive disasters in U.S military history?

Freebase Dali · 10-16-2009, 09:22 PM

I don't really have a lot of knowledge as far as what really went down in 'Nam, but being a veteran of the Iraq war, I definitely have an interest in it and the comparisons to how the US has gone about things in the past, versus how we go about them now.

I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions and getting factual references on this subject.

dark shadow · 10-16-2009, 10:00 PM

The Vietnam War was an ode to ancient Chinese teachings. The US was a far superior fighting force, but we were used to fighting wars of attrition, where two armies fight each other in skirmishes that build up to large battles. By definition, this style of warfare is costly, both in terms of human life and military equipment and funding. Look at WWII and all the people who lost their lives to stop the Axis, and all the money that was poured into it.

Meanwhile the Vietcong and Vietminh fought in guerrilla style sneak attacks, using trickery and the element of surprise to weaken morale and slowly but surely diminish the American forces. Realizing that to fight the US head up in large battles would be suicide, they chose instead to play to their own strengths to negate the vast strength the US military held. At the same time the continuous loss of life to an invisible enemy weakened the resolve of soldiers and the civilians stateside. When public morale wavers, so does any war effort. No country can fight a war without the support of its own populace.

The Tet Offensive was truly the turning point of the war. Happening on Tet, or the the day of the Vietnamese New Year, it caught the South Vietnamese and the US completely off-guard. The gruesome precision with which the attack was carried out, almost simultaneously between dozens of N.Vietnamese and US command posts and military installations, was effective at first. However, the attacks abandoned the guerrilla warfare the Vietcong had prospered off of to that point. The Tet Offensive ended with massive casualties for the communist forces.

In spite of this, the Offensive crushed the resolve of the American command and further inspired hatred towards US military involvement in Vietnam in the general public. It would be the eventual cause of the end of the war, although neither side could truly be declared a winner. The ironic factor of the war, was that the US Revolution was won by guerrilla attacks weakening the superior British force and turning the public against the war, due to the fact that many felt the money was being wasted. In the same way we won our independence, failing to see the effectiveness of our own historical tactics nearly won the communist Vietcong there's.

Source: History Textbooks, Documentaries, and Personal Thoughts

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 10-16-2009, 10:11 PM

I found it interesting how you likened it to the American Revolution and would like to point out one more fact about both wars: The victorious sides fought on familular soil. A huge tactical advantage. Of course that's untrue of The South Vietnamese forces but still, futhers the comparisons.

dark shadow · 10-16-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

I found it interesting how you likened it to the American Revolution and would like to point out one more fact about both wars: The victorious sides fought on familular soil. A huge tactical advantage. Of course that's untrue of The South Vietnamese forces but still, futhers the comparisons.

A very true statement. I would also like to point out that fighting a war on your own soil, to defend your country from a foreign country adds a degree of desperation. While the foreigner's are there to invade, many may not wish to be there. Some may not even agree with the war effort. Still others may agree with the war, but without any strong conviction. When faced with an opponent willing to fight tooth and nail, these type of soldiers will break, and along with them goes the morale of the troop.

kouki · 10-17-2009, 12:23 PM

I dont know to much about this war,except that it was messy.This is not an opinion,its pretty much the experience of a soldier from that war that I use to work with.He was a POW from that war and he only once talked about it.He got teary eyed and didnt want to go on,so I never asked again.He told me when he got out (after being freed)that he weighed 98lbs,he would drink his own piss (when captive).He said the vietnamese would put bombs on babys and blow them and US soldiers up. His buddys where interrogated on a chopper,they where thrown off it whether they gave info or not.Very horrible s*it,it fascinated me though,made me realize how some troops could very easily loose their minds,but he didnt(to a point,I guess).It blew my mind more that he was working at mickey ds with me and was making a mesely 7bucks an hour and was living in a crappy a** apartment in the hood.Deffinetely a lot of respect for these guys and current troops.I guess my opinion is that they deserve so much more.

TheBig3 · 10-19-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

It's not a current event, thats for sure. But it was once the most polarizing topic in America, and it continues to stir debate and controversy today. I'm sure that most of us know the reasons for, and the outcome of the war.

Practices on both sides of the conflict were appalling, both sides killed innocent people in cold blood. I'm sure I don't have to eleborate,

Personally I feel sympathetic for the Veterans that returned, only to be harrassed and made the subject of hatred. Most of them did no wrong, many of them acted out of duty, and yet were tormented by what took place there for years. I actually have a lot of family that served.

What is your opinion of this war? Although it was a failure, was the effort exerted into it (human lives being the most prominate resource sacraficed) worth what they were trying to accomplish (containment of communism)? Or do you think (like I do) that red paranoia led to one of the most massive disasters in U.S military history?

how badly do you want the 60's back? And at what point will you realize you're living in better tiems now.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 10-19-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

how badly do you want the 60's back?

Was this directed at me? If so I have so idea of the point your trying to make. I'm 17 years old, I don't want any previous decade back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

And at what point will you realize you're living in better tiems now.

You are saying that to the wrong person, I've never been a person to wish I lived in another era. This is a widely discussed and controversial topic and if you don't want to make a genuine stab at it then I really don't know what to tell you, try another thread maybe?

asshat · 10-19-2009, 09:21 PM

I'm not very knowledgeable about Vietnam but what I heard I don't like...the fact that agent orange was used and the fact that U.S. troops killed innocent civilians. It seems like it was a totally pointless war, but I'd never blame actual troops, since a lot of them didn't have a choice in the matter.(I read that the a lot of those civilians were murdered because they cong were embedded in the general population, so the troops became extremely paranoid and couldn't be very discriminating).

sleepy jack · 10-25-2009, 02:17 AM

I don't really understand why people care about the Vietnam War. If we're going to discuss history, there's so much more influential/interesting things to discuss...and even those I don't really care to discuss. I mean I think the Rosenbergs were heroes but I don't really feel like making a thread about it.

10-16-2009, 08:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	The Vietnam War It's not a current event, thats for sure. But it was once the most polarizing topic in America, and it continues to stir debate and controversy today. I'm sure that most of us know the reasons for, and the outcome of the war. Practices on both sides of the conflict were appalling, both sides killed innocent people in cold blood. I'm sure I don't have to eleborate, Personally I feel sympathetic for the Veterans that returned, only to be harrassed and made the subject of hatred. Most of them did no wrong, many of them acted out of duty, and yet were tormented by what took place there for years. I actually have a lot of family that served. What is your opinion of this war? Although it was a failure, was the effort exerted into it (human lives being the most prominate resource sacraficed) worth what they were trying to accomplish (containment of communism)? Or do you think (like I do) that red paranoia led to one of the most massive disasters in U.S military history?

10-16-2009, 09:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Freebase Dali Partying on the inside Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,584	I don't really have a lot of knowledge as far as what really went down in 'Nam, but being a veteran of the Iraq war, I definitely have an interest in it and the comparisons to how the US has gone about things in the past, versus how we go about them now. I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions and getting factual references on this subject. __________________

10-17-2009, 12:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
kouki Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Devils armpit (aka Phx,AZ) Posts: 126	I dont know to much about this war,except that it was messy.This is not an opinion,its pretty much the experience of a soldier from that war that I use to work with.He was a POW from that war and he only once talked about it.He got teary eyed and didnt want to go on,so I never asked again.He told me when he got out (after being freed)that he weighed 98lbs,he would drink his own piss (when captive).He said the vietnamese would put bombs on babys and blow them and US soldiers up. His buddys where interrogated on a chopper,they where thrown off it whether they gave info or not.Very horrible sit,it fascinated me though,made me realize how some troops could very easily loose their minds,but he didnt(to a point,I guess).It blew my mind more that he was working at mickey ds with me and was making a mesely 7bucks an hour and was living in a crappy a* apartment in the hood.Deffinetely a lot of respect for these guys and current troops.I guess my opinion is that they deserve so much more. __________________ It jiggles when he wiggles-Fez

10-19-2009, 09:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
asshat king of sex Join Date: May 2009 Location: canada Posts: 331	I'm not very knowledgeable about Vietnam but what I heard I don't like...the fact that agent orange was used and the fact that U.S. troops killed innocent civilians. It seems like it was a totally pointless war, but I'd never blame actual troops, since a lot of them didn't have a choice in the matter.(I read that the a lot of those civilians were murdered because they cong were embedded in the general population, so the troops became extremely paranoid and couldn't be very discriminating). __________________ Rye Catcher II: Electric Boogaloo http://oldhickory666.blogspot.com/

10-16-2009, 10:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
dark shadow Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 78	The Vietnam War was an ode to ancient Chinese teachings. The US was a far superior fighting force, but we were used to fighting wars of attrition, where two armies fight each other in skirmishes that build up to large battles. By definition, this style of warfare is costly, both in terms of human life and military equipment and funding. Look at WWII and all the people who lost their lives to stop the Axis, and all the money that was poured into it. Meanwhile the Vietcong and Vietminh fought in guerrilla style sneak attacks, using trickery and the element of surprise to weaken morale and slowly but surely diminish the American forces. Realizing that to fight the US head up in large battles would be suicide, they chose instead to play to their own strengths to negate the vast strength the US military held. At the same time the continuous loss of life to an invisible enemy weakened the resolve of soldiers and the civilians stateside. When public morale wavers, so does any war effort. No country can fight a war without the support of its own populace. The Tet Offensive was truly the turning point of the war. Happening on Tet, or the the day of the Vietnamese New Year, it caught the South Vietnamese and the US completely off-guard. The gruesome precision with which the attack was carried out, almost simultaneously between dozens of N.Vietnamese and US command posts and military installations, was effective at first. However, the attacks abandoned the guerrilla warfare the Vietcong had prospered off of to that point. The Tet Offensive ended with massive casualties for the communist forces. In spite of this, the Offensive crushed the resolve of the American command and further inspired hatred towards US military involvement in Vietnam in the general public. It would be the eventual cause of the end of the war, although neither side could truly be declared a winner. The ironic factor of the war, was that the US Revolution was won by guerrilla attacks weakening the superior British force and turning the public against the war, due to the fact that many felt the money was being wasted. In the same way we won our independence, failing to see the effectiveness of our own historical tactics nearly won the communist Vietcong there's. Source: History Textbooks, Documentaries, and Personal Thoughts

10-16-2009, 10:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	I found it interesting how you likened it to the American Revolution and would like to point out one more fact about both wars: The victorious sides fought on familular soil. A huge tactical advantage. Of course that's untrue of The South Vietnamese forces but still, futhers the comparisons.