Are you religious?

NumberNineDream · 10-07-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation

What I don't understand about the Christian religion is how Satan amassed so much power and influence over humanity. Is it because god let it happen or because Satan is some sort of deity? I tend to side with those who believe Satan is the Christian equivelent of Minos, or the great judge of hell in Dante's Commedia. Saitan, from what I've been told, is an archaic Arabic word meaning judge. Is it more likely that god called upon lucifer, one of his most trusted angels, to be a sort of judge, jury, and executioner of those who disobeyed god's commands?

I just read this one of those online dictionaries. I don't know the source of that, but I tried to use my Arabic for once.

So if you're talking about the Arabic origins:
Satan (eng) comes from the adjective Shaytan (ar) that was later used as a noun for Lucifer [that's always the case in Arabic, like "Al-Kader or The Powerful, does actually refer to God]

So going to the source: the adjective Shayt-an. So the noun is "Shayt" [using my Arabic knowledge in grammar]. I searched in an Arabic dictionary to see what is the meaning of Shayt [plus its origins] ... turns out it means "a burn" (or more of "a singe" ... so:

Satan >>> the burned one.

khfreek · 10-07-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeggieLover

(for instance, evolution does NOT conflict with creation)

mmm, goodie

VeggieLover · 10-07-2009, 07:30 PM

for me, the existing dimenstions cannot allow perfection to exist. Not even God. In order to resolve this, the paradox between Satan and God was created. As humans, we are able to embody both qualities of God and of Satan, thus making us human. Because God gave us free will, he can't or won't interfere with Satan's troublemaking because without it, things would cease to exist. Its abstract

thats why i love paradox so much.

And my goodness, if people are converting to wiccanism for Harry Potters sake i might as well jump off a cliff because i like wind. My friend is actually "wiccan" because thats what he believes. He likes the whole "faith in himself" thing, and spells help him do that.

WWWP · 10-07-2009, 08:11 PM

Things I remember from/ was taught growing up in a mormon family:

1. God was once a mortal man who lived on another planet. He lived in obedience of the laws and ordinances of the gospel he had on his planet, and was resurrected when he died. Eventually he evolved into a god.

2. Mormons believe that we first existed as "intelligences," were later given spirit bodies in heaven, that we have existed forever, and that we have always been around God in one form or another.

3. Mormons believe that the truth is determined by feelings. They do not rely on and will disregard any facts that contradict what their feelings tell them is true. For example, a follower of mormonism would feel "bad" if someone said that Joseph Smith was a fraud. So, by mormon logic, Smith must have been a prophet since falsehoods create bad feelings. (In other words, if you have a bad feeling about something you hear, you are hearing bad things which must be lies.) Similarly, a mormon would feel good when reading the Book of Mormon, therefore it must be true. My grandmother, for example, would determine whether or not she should do something (or whether she knows the truth of something) if she had prayed about and received a "good feeling."

4. Mormons believe that what a Prophet has said can be revised. They believe that when a Prophet said something that could be proved incorrect, he was simply "not being inspired" at that time, and was speaking only as a man.

5. They baptize dead people by proxy so they can become mormons too.

6. Apostates will go to hell.

7. Mormons believe that even if they are wrong about mormonism, God will forgive them since they believed in Christ like Christians said they should. If mormons are right, they will be together forever with their families as gods in heaven.

8. The Book of Mormon.... sigh. It's a book which has no historical support whatsoever. They claim it's a religious record of various peoples who populated the Americas for over 2000 some years. This group of people are believed to have been Jewish, but somehow these people left no tangible proof of their existence.

9. Since there are people who oppose mormonism, it must be true. Only the one true church would have anything bad said about it. After all, the devil fights against the truth.

Wrymwood · 10-07-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon

Things I remember from/ was taught growing up in a mormon family:

8. The Book of Mormon.... sigh. It's a book which has no historical support whatsoever. They claim it's a religious record of various peoples who populated the Americas for over 2000 some years. This group of people are believed to have been Jewish, but somehow these people left no tangible proof of their existence.

It's actually an account from the perspective of the Nephites starting in 600 B.C. It starts in Jerusalem with one family who leave Jerusalem before its taken captive by Babylon and sail across the ocean to South America and goes to about 392 A.D if I remember correctly. I'm no scholar in ancient history, but it's mentioned in the BoM that many structures were made of earth and wood making the remains very hard to find. To be honest, what other explanation is there to the creation of the Book of Mormon? I'd be curious as to what you guys think.

WWWP · 10-07-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrymwood

It's actually an account from the perspective of the Nephites starting in 600 B.C. It starts in Jerusalem with one family who leave Jerusalem before its taken captive by Babylon and sail across the ocean to South America and goes to about 392 A.D if I remember correctly. I'm no scholar in ancient history, but it's mentioned in the BoM that many structures were made of earth and wood making the remains very hard to find. To be honest, what other explanation is there to the creation of the Book of Mormon? I'd be curious as to what you guys think.

Maybe someone made it all up?

Wrymwood · 10-07-2009, 10:39 PM

I actually read a book about the possibility it was forged. The intricacies of the details and the information that was available at the time of Joseph Smith have no correlation. There was no way for Joseph to know all the details that are contained in the book. There are also way too many things a forger would have avoided that Joseph expounded on. He also translated it in a little over 60 days. A book of that size would take a lifetime to create and to be able to pull it off as well as he did.

WWWP · 10-07-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrymwood

I actually read a book about the possibility it was forged. The intricacies of the details and the information that was available at the time of Joseph Smith have no correlation. There was no way for Joseph to know all the details that are contained in the book. There are also way too many things a forger would have avoided that Joseph expounded on. He also translated it in a little over 60 days. A book of that size would take a lifetime to create and to be able to pull it off as well as he did.

I'm not going to try to prove you wrong, because it's a pointless argument. I don't believe any of this so let's just agree to disagree.

Guybrush · 10-08-2009, 02:32 AM

Thanks Alfred, Wrymwood and wolverinewolfweiselpigeon

I don't find any of it believable at all, but now I know a bit more at least.

It's interesting to see how many choose self-defined. I think it's become more and more popular even among followers of religions to come up with their own ideas which often even contradicts those of the religion he/she follows.

VeggieLover f.ex believes God can't intervene directly which is fine of course, but if you at the same time believes the bible is true, how do you then interpret the many stories where God intervenes from the old testament?

CanwllCorfe · 10-08-2009, 09:49 AM

No, I'm not religious. If I had to pick I'd go with Catholic cause that's what I was raised as. I never really got my communion and if I wanted to I would have to go to church every Sunday for 2 years. **** that

View Poll Results: What religion do you follow?
Christianity	38	20.32%
Buddhism	3	1.60%
Hinduism	1	0.53%
Islam	2	1.07%
Judaism	4	2.14%
Wiccanism	1	0.53%
Other established religion (feel free to post about it)	6	3.21%
Self-defined	25	13.37%
Don't follow any religion & don't believe in deities (atheist)	68	36.36%
Not Sure, undecided, don't know or don't care	39	20.86%
Sikhism	0	0%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

10-07-2009, 07:30 PM	#73 (permalink)
VeggieLover Music?! Lets boogie! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: CO Posts: 215	for me, the existing dimenstions cannot allow perfection to exist. Not even God. In order to resolve this, the paradox between Satan and God was created. As humans, we are able to embody both qualities of God and of Satan, thus making us human. Because God gave us free will, he can't or won't interfere with Satan's troublemaking because without it, things would cease to exist. Its abstract thats why i love paradox so much. And my goodness, if people are converting to wiccanism for Harry Potters sake i might as well jump off a cliff because i like wind. My friend is actually "wiccan" because thats what he believes. He likes the whole "faith in himself" thing, and spells help him do that. __________________ "Not remotely! Because iocaine comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you."

10-07-2009, 10:39 PM	#77 (permalink)
Wrymwood Groupie Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 40	I actually read a book about the possibility it was forged. The intricacies of the details and the information that was available at the time of Joseph Smith have no correlation. There was no way for Joseph to know all the details that are contained in the book. There are also way too many things a forger would have avoided that Joseph expounded on. He also translated it in a little over 60 days. A book of that size would take a lifetime to create and to be able to pull it off as well as he did. __________________ When out of valid arguments, criticize the other persons grammar.

10-08-2009, 02:32 AM	#79 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Thanks Alfred, Wrymwood and wolverinewolfweiselpigeon I don't find any of it believable at all, but now I know a bit more at least. It's interesting to see how many choose self-defined. I think it's become more and more popular even among followers of religions to come up with their own ideas which often even contradicts those of the religion he/she follows. VeggieLover f.ex believes God can't intervene directly which is fine of course, but if you at the same time believes the bible is true, how do you then interpret the many stories where God intervenes from the old testament? __________________ Something Completely Different

10-08-2009, 09:49 AM	#80 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	No, I'm not religious. If I had to pick I'd go with Catholic cause that's what I was raised as. I never really got my communion and if I wanted to I would have to go to church every Sunday for 2 years. **** that __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.