Music Banter - Are you religious?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla (Post 945077)

So what's the point of being human and living life then?

http://homeofcandybars.com/images/reeses_pieces.jpg

resees pieces. they're just so.... good.

They're quite good, but my answer would have been pink-frosted donuts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by storymilo (Post 945472)

http://homeofcandybars.com/images/reeses_pieces.jpg

resees pieces. they're just so.... good.

It's like you read my mind...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty (Post 945104)

Then you get off the ride and you're either like... Yo I wasted my time on that piece of **** ride. Or you say.. Damn, that ride was awesome.

How do you judge that, though? What do you put value on and why? You said in an earlier post that you want to do good for the world--how do you define good in such a way?

For me, the answers to that sort of question boils down to acknowledging one is a part of something larger than the self. Doing good becomes a matter of realizing one's actions have consequences and attempting to navigate those consequences (we're not perfect so we can't always see the outcomes of certain actions, but we can try--that's the point). Conversely, evil is not doing that--it's putting one's-self above all others and acting accordingly.

Once one gets that far, it's not that much of an intuitive leap to realize there's an everflowing chain of cause and effect involved in the world. Yes, I control what I do and how I react to the world around me, but that world is shaped by the equally conscious choices of everyone else in the universe. But people's consciousnesses are symbiotic, they inform each other (this is what culture is, by the way), so out of that emerges this idea of a sort of collective consciousness--the idea that the whole is somehow more than the sum of its parts and that each piece exists as an integral part of that whole. To wit, everything that happens to me happens because everything that has gone on in the universe prior to now has led things to this point and everything I do will contribute to that shaping of the universe. Nothing is random and nothing exists in a vacuum; it's all part of a perfect system.

I'm not explaining it as well as I could (I'm tired) but that's sort of how I see god. I don't ascribe to any particular religion because to do so immediately defeats the point for me, but I do believe in a higher power, even if it's not exactly personified. And for those who do believe in a personal higher power, I can usually find my idea of god buried somewhere within theirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Black Poppies (Post 945512)

Dirty, I'm gonna pick on you in this thread too, just because you open a door to my viewpoint--playing devil's advocate kickstarts my thought process (although there's some irony in that phrasing). I promise it's not personal/I'm not trying to single you out.

How do you judge that, though? What do you put value on and why? You said in an earlier post that you want to do good for the world--how do you define good in such a way?

For me, the answers to that sort of question boils down to acknowledging one is a part of something larger than the self. Doing good becomes a matter of realizing one's actions have consequences and attempting to navigate those consequences (we're not perfect so we can't always see the outcomes of certain actions, but we can try--that's the point). Conversely, evil is not doing that--it's putting one's-self above all others and acting accordingly.

Once one gets that far, it's not that much of an intuitive leap to realize there's an everflowing chain of cause and effect involved in the world. Yes, I control what I do and how I react to the world around me, but that world is shaped by the equally conscious choices of everyone else in the universe. But people's consciousnesses are symbiotic, they inform each other (this is what culture is, by the way), so out of that emerges this idea of a sort of collective consciousness--the idea that the whole is somehow more than the sum of its parts and that each piece exists as an integral part of that whole. To wit, everything that happens to me happens because everything that has gone on in the universe prior to now has led things to this point and everything I do will contribute to that shaping of the universe. Nothing is random and nothing exists in a vacuum; it's all part of a perfect system.

I'm not explaining it as well as I could (I'm tired) but that's sort of how I see god. I don't ascribe to any particular religion because to do so immediately defeats the point for me, but I do believe in a higher power, even if it's not exactly personified. And for those who do believe in a personal higher power, I can usually find my idea of god buried somewhere within theirs.

What is 'good' for the world and 'good' in general has to be defined by each person. For me, I am working on getting my degree and I want to do social work with kids (Yes I know it doesn't pay well). I want to do positive things and help people. Everyone has a different idea of what is 'good' and I don't feel like those things are universally defined. It has nothing to do with me acknowledging a higher power. The thought of a God never enters my mind daily, religion just is not something I think about. I make choices, live with the consequences, and just live life.

Okay, well... in the spirit of friendly debate then,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty (Post 945514)

Everyone has a different idea of what is 'good' and I don't feel like those things are universally defined.

I don't know that that's necessarily true. If good were up to each person, everybody would be allowed to do whatever they define as good and that would be that. But that's not how we function--in order to exist as social beings, we have to figure out things we can agree upon; as individuals, we have to navigate larger ideas of good and evil, accepting or rejecting them. Even if the definition is an ongoing debate, part of our existence as a species is to define what is "good" universally.

Like you say you want to get into social work (admirable, by the way), to do positive things and help people. What makes you think those are positive things (I'm not saying they're not, just asking you to consider your own thought process)?

You don't have to call it "god," but you're talking about making choices and living with consequences--you're part of the system that's what I choose to call god (sort of). That's all I'm sayin'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Black Poppies (Post 945546)

Okay, well... in the spirit of friendly debate then,

I don't know that that's necessarily true. If good were up to each person, everybody would be allowed to do whatever they define as good and that would be that. But that's not how we function--in order to exist as social beings, we have to figure out things we can agree upon; as individuals, we have to navigate larger ideas of good and evil, accepting or rejecting them. Even if the definition is an ongoing debate, part of our existence as a species is to define what is "good" universally.

Like you say you want to get into social work (admirable, by the way), to do positive things and help people. What makes you think those are positive things (I'm not saying they're not, just asking you to consider your own thought process)?

You don't have to call it "god," but you're talking about making choices and living with consequences--you're part of the system that's what I choose to call god (sort of). That's all I'm sayin'.

On a larger scale I suppose there is a sense of greater good that we all believe in. For instance, everyone can agree murdering someone is not a good thing. Everyone would agree charity to less fortunate IS a good thing. I was referring to more small scaled things, like every day activities. Some people may think meeting a girl at a bar and having sex with her than night and never talking to her is 'evil.' Others don't see anything wrong with it.

I just don't really see how God plays into this all. The system you refer to as God is what I refer to as society. I know if I do something evil, there is a chance I will be punished (legally or perhaps revenge from someone). I know what my actions may bring. The morals instilled in me guide me to not hurt other people, not the fear of a God watching over me. It's like... I know I am part of something larger than myself, my friends, my town, etc.. but to me that doesn't mean there is some higher power I am part of. It just means I am a small person in a big world.

Well, yeah, some things are easy to agree on, where some things are more vague and questionable. And ultimately it is up to each person to make a choice about what they believe about those grey areas.

And you're right, societal structure is a big part of that. But society is just made up of people. If those morals were instilled in you, by what? By your family, your friends, your town--are those not higher powers? I'm not talking about anything supernatural, I'm talking about people affecting each other on a grand scale across place and time--that the big world you refer to is a different way of seeing what some people call god (I'm consciously not capitalizing), made up of billions of little moving parts making decisions about whether to take the chick at the bar home or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon (Post 945396)

Quote:

I think Aethism is like conservatism in that everyone who professes it believes they do so as a minority and with a sword.

This is totally true.

It's true that this is how the religious majority likes to depict atheists, but aside from that, no it isn't true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Black Poppies (Post 945512)

For me, the answers to that sort of question boils down to acknowledging one is a part of something larger than the self. Doing good becomes a matter of realizing one's actions have consequences and attempting to navigate those consequences (we're not perfect so we can't always see the outcomes of certain actions, but we can try--that's the point). Conversely, evil is not doing that--it's putting one's-self above all others and acting accordingly.

Once one gets that far, it's not that much of an intuitive leap to realize there's an everflowing chain of cause and effect involved in the world. Yes, I control what I do and how I react to the world around me, but that world is shaped by the equally conscious choices of everyone else in the universe. But people's consciousnesses are symbiotic, they inform each other (this is what culture is, by the way), so out of that emerges this idea of a sort of collective consciousness--the idea that the whole is somehow more than the sum of its parts and that each piece exists as an integral part of that whole. To wit, everything that happens to me happens because everything that has gone on in the universe prior to now has led things to this point and everything I do will contribute to that shaping of the universe. Nothing is random and nothing exists in a vacuum; it's all part of a perfect system.

I'm not explaining it as well as I could (I'm tired) but that's sort of how I see god. I don't ascribe to any particular religion because to do so immediately defeats the point for me, but I do believe in a higher power, even if it's not exactly personified. And for those who do believe in a personal higher power, I can usually find my idea of god buried somewhere within theirs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Black Poppies (Post 945546)

You don't have to call it "god," but you're talking about making choices and living with consequences--you're part of the system that's what I choose to call god (sort of). That's all I'm sayin'.

I know what you mean, but I think the analogy with the idea of god (at least the Judaeo-Christian god) doesn't work here. God is supposed to reward good actions and punish bad actions. So if you want to make an accurate analogy, there must be moral consequences for oneself, not only for the others. And experience shows the existence of millions of fortunate motherf***ers and millions of ill-fated good people. And they don't get their aliquot part of karmic justice meted out by an impersonal higher power. Look at the unlucky virtuous Justine. And look at the social hypocrisy, praising the virtue when it suits its need but exclaiming "how fortunate the man with none" when it doesn't.

Your argument could be valid, but only to an ideal society, and only if you consider that doing the good is good per se, regardless of the consequences (negative or positive) for oneself; not as an analogy with the traditional idea of God (as a "personal higher power").