Is it just me, or does heaven sound like a really horrible place?

Freebase Dali · 09-18-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

No you should name it Stretch because it spends all it times with fat and/or stinky things.

That's quite a stretch.

anabundanceoftubes · 09-18-2009, 07:09 PM

I've never heard of any of those details of heaven. And I was force marched to sunday school for eight years of my existence. but I'm also from a really relaxed branch of Protestant, I'm sure Catholics have more definite ideas of heaven. To me, the concept was always a little sick and depressing. If "god" is so into forgiveness, why would hell even be required? If he's all knowing, all powerful, and almighty why would he create humans that would need to be sent to hell anyway? Why would he create humans that needed to be tested? And have you heard about Job? That story on its own is enough to make me agnostic. What kind of sick bastard would do that to a person? I don't want to believe in a God like that. He doesn't inspire hope in me, and he seems juvenile and immature.

Freebase Dali · 09-18-2009, 07:21 PM

What's really going to get your brain in a knot is that if God is all knowing and all wise, he must have created us while knowing each of the choices and decisions we'd make that would ultimately bring us to heaven or hell... If he knows all, then he would know where we were going. Thus, he'd basically be creating people without ultimate free will and with a specific destination after death, and just watching the little show unfold like ants in an ant farm.

anabundanceoftubes · 09-18-2009, 07:50 PM

that would be so repulsive. Things like slavery and the Holocaust jump to mind. Were they just tests? and who was being tested? If there's no such thing as free will how can we be tested?

Astronomer · 09-18-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anabundanceoftubes

that would be so repulsive. Things like slavery and the Holocaust jump to mind. Were they just tests? and who was being tested? If there's no such thing as free will how can we be tested?

Exactly. If God is all-knowing then life on Earth seems pretty pointless.

Dr.Seussicide · 09-18-2009, 07:57 PM

Three cheers for the theory of evolution

boo boo · 09-18-2009, 07:59 PM

Especially if people go to heaven only to forget about their experiences on earth.

That would making testing us pointless and if god was gonna do something like that anyway why not just brainwash everybody so nobody has to go to hell?

Why give us free will, just so we can pass a test where the reward is... no more free will? That sounds great dosen't it?

storymilo · 09-18-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

Especially if people go to heaven only to forget about their experiences on earth.

That would making testing us pointless and if god was gonna do something like that anyway why not just brainwash everybody so nobody has to go to hell?

Why give us free will, just so we can pass a test where the reward is... no more free will? That sounds great dosen't it?

Maybe we weren't supposed to enjoy free will? If heaven is devoid of free will, does that mean it's counterpart hell has free will? In that case, sin here I come...

I prefer the idea of a god that isn't all-knowing and all powerful. It's a pretty ridiculous idea but think about it this way. We can create computers that are programmed to perform one function without stopping or changing it's routine. We can also create machines designed to do more complicated things; however, we still maintain control over what the computer will do. If life is only a test from god, it seems we are just computers programmed by him. But there are of course science fiction story's and so on where computers actually take control of themselves, and the humans lose control. Imagining god as a scientist who lost control of his computer (us) sounds better to me than a god who controls everything we do, even if it seems we have free will.

boo boo · 09-18-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storymilo

Maybe we weren't supposed to enjoy free will? If heaven is devoid of free will, does that mean it's counterpart hell has free will? In that case, sin here I come...

I prefer the idea of a god that isn't all-knowing and all powerful. It's a pretty ridiculous idea but think about it this way. We can create computers that are programmed to perform one function without stopping or changing it's routine. We can also create machines designed to do more complicated things; however, we still maintain control over what the computer will do. If life is only a test from god, it seems we are just computers programmed by him. But there are of course science fiction story's and so on where computers actually take control of themselves, and the humans lose control. Imagining god as a scientist who lost control of his computer (us) sounds better to me than a god who controls everything we do, even if it seems we have free will.

Agreed.

Some Christians want to believe that NOTHING just happens on it's own, either God or Satan always has something to do with it, and the idea that everything in the universe is being manipulated by two feuding egomaniacs is pretty horrifying.

You know what I mean. When you're cured of a serious disease, do you thank the surgeon? Or do you thank God? When a friend dies from a drug overdose, do you blame him? Or do you blame Satan?

People just want to believe in this epic story of dueling supernatural forces, because that relieves them of any responsibility in the world.

Freebase Dali · 09-19-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

On that note: if you're so opposed to science, next time you come down with some sort of illness, don't go to the doctor, go to church. See where it gets you.

That's definitely happened before and ended in tragedy.
And the usual excuse is: "God must have wanted it to happen".

Must be nice to go through life and be able to blame every mistake you (general usage) make on a cosmic pincushion with super powers and an infinite capacity to forgive.
I can see how that'd be comforting.
I can see why something like that exists for people who don't even know they need it because they're too fucked up to bear the responsibility for their own actions and the actions of humanity as a whole. So easy to justify the state of humanity when you've got a God pulling all the strings for "your own good".

These people don't want to know that we're responsible for our own destiny, and that it's not an infinite one.
Religion is a construction motivated by fear and cowardice.

That's why religion sickens me to no end.
That reason specifically.

09-18-2009, 07:21 PM	#53 (permalink)
Freebase Dali Partying on the inside Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,584	What's really going to get your brain in a knot is that if God is all knowing and all wise, he must have created us while knowing each of the choices and decisions we'd make that would ultimately bring us to heaven or hell... If he knows all, then he would know where we were going. Thus, he'd basically be creating people without ultimate free will and with a specific destination after death, and just watching the little show unfold like ants in an ant farm. __________________

09-18-2009, 07:57 PM	#56 (permalink)
Dr.Seussicide FakingSuicideForApplause Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: I live in a van down by the river Posts: 1,365	Three cheers for the theory of evolution __________________ I'll stay if I ever could, and pick up your pieces babe, because there's never a perfect day. Don't fret, baby, we're simply growing And my darling, I wouldn't mind to die like this.

09-18-2009, 07:09 PM	#52 (permalink)
anabundanceoftubes Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maggie's farm Posts: 56	I've never heard of any of those details of heaven. And I was force marched to sunday school for eight years of my existence. but I'm also from a really relaxed branch of Protestant, I'm sure Catholics have more definite ideas of heaven. To me, the concept was always a little sick and depressing. If "god" is so into forgiveness, why would hell even be required? If he's all knowing, all powerful, and almighty why would he create humans that would need to be sent to hell anyway? Why would he create humans that needed to be tested? And have you heard about Job? That story on its own is enough to make me agnostic. What kind of sick bastard would do that to a person? I don't want to believe in a God like that. He doesn't inspire hope in me, and he seems juvenile and immature.

09-18-2009, 07:50 PM	#54 (permalink)
anabundanceoftubes Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Maggie's farm Posts: 56	that would be so repulsive. Things like slavery and the Holocaust jump to mind. Were they just tests? and who was being tested? If there's no such thing as free will how can we be tested?