Schizotypic

Boo Boo, what specifically gave you the idea that modern feminism was oppressing woman? Just out of curiosity. Like, where are you pulling this assumption from?

Inuzuka Skysword

They should be ashamed if that isn't how they want to look. Seriously, ask any fat girl if she would rather be slender. I can guarantee that everyone who is sane would say yes.

"We're all human" isn't a good excuse.

VeggieLover

Would they still answer that way if the ideal woman wasn't stick thin? We really have no way of knowing. Of course there is a point when being too heavy becomes unhealthy, but until that point, there is absolutely no rational reason to be ashamed. Why isn't it a good "excuse"?

__________________
"Not remotely! Because iocaine comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you."

boo boo

Agreed, I'm sure there are fat people who are proud to be fat, but I'm very sure it's a minority.

And while I encourage diversity I don't encourage bad self esteem (ok ok, I'm obviously not the poster child for good self image but whatever). I also don't understand how if a woman likes to be fit or put on makeup that automatically means she has bad self esteem. Isn't it possible that they just have some self confidence and actually like the way they look?

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

boo boo

My main argument has as much to do about behavior as it does appearance if not more so.

Which is what seems to be a war between radical feminism (which is what Schizo calls the second wave, I guess) and feminity itself, and people who find value in it.

And I might add, there's a difference between "challenging" our perception of feminity and just plain sh*tting on it.

While I condone newer generations to find their own voice, I don't think that justifies being a d*ck to people simply because they value the older tradition.

I mean, I can't say that everything I find attractive fits with what society finds attractive either.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

VeggieLover

It doesn't, i dont think anyones arguing with you on that one

__________________
"Not remotely! Because iocaine comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you."

anticipation

i'm against feminism because it asserts that men and women should be treated to men, when they are clearly not. I know that sounds horrible, but hear me out. When feminists get all upset that men are instantly assigned to tasks or given positions of power over women and assume it's "just because they are men". I've got news for you, who gives a ****? Men and women are instinctually more apt at certain tasks than others, be it nurturing children for women, or physical dominance and a sense of leadership in men. There will never, and I mean never be a world where men and women perform the same social functions at equal levels, so why hope for it? It makes absolutley no sense. Feminists demonize competitve attitude and male pride to no end, but have men ever attacked the natural characteristics of grace and sensitivity in women? Why hate something you are powerless to change? All I'm saying is that men and women are not, and will never be, total equals, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

VeggieLover

Your assertion makes sense, if all men were the same and all women were the same. Unfortunatly, it isnt that easy. I know a whole lot of women who are not graceful, never will be, and who would be terrible at raising a child. I also know a lot of skinny little dudes with no physical dominance or leadership in their bodies. Some women are stronger than some men (physically and otherwise). True, these are in the minority, but that doesn't mean they should be discriminated against just because they're women. The point isn't to achieve 50% representation in every exisiting feild. Its all about the opportunity to perform to ones best ability, whatever that ability may be. men and women do have distinct roles they need to play, but those roles can include a lot more than we generally assume.

I suppose it all rests on abolishing the gender stereotypes and generalizations.

__________________
"Not remotely! Because iocaine comes from Australia, as everyone knows. And Australia is entirely peopled with criminals. And criminals are used to having people not trust them as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you."

boo boo

Exactly.

We should be proud of our distinctions instead of trying to get rid of them.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

anticipation

I know that generalizations aren't accurate perceptions of reality, but that's what many feminists use. I'd like it if so many people didn't talk about why they should be equal, but rather prove they should be equal in real life.. This is something that very few feminists do.