My point wasn't to refute your point. My point was what I observe from people (no one specific at MB) that they believe the Medieval Ages were a break in continuity between the ancient world and the modern world (with it scientific and techonlogical advancements.) They believe science is the answer to life and point back to the ancient world, and marvel at there technological developements (sometime they mention the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.)

The wonders of the world were created with reason. They didn't build the pyramids without having some logical base, such as mathematics. They might have said that God was their divine inspiration, but in the doing it was reasoning and logic.

sure. most people also refuse to recognize the continuity between alchemy and modern science. a lot of people also adopt a lot of ideas that don't come from the bible but instead from biblical interpreters without taking the time to go and read all of the bible or st augustine. my personal belief is that without spirituality humanity gets lost and self-destructive, but also that most religions are historico-situational interpretations of the same spirituality, and hence should be updated as mankind finds itself in new situations.

When ancient Egyptians built the pyramids they didn't have a Judeo-Christian concept of God. Their inspiration was the immortality of their kings and queens. The knowledge and techonology that the ancients Egyptians possessed was mix with esoteric knowledge. It isn't the same as today for example where numerology and mathematics are two seperate things.

his cd box set IS my bible

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...GL._SS500_.jpg

:bowdown:

I disagree with you. Because God touches peoples lives in way you don't understand. Before I had faith in God I was a completely different person and travelled down a destructive path in life. One day turned that around when I physically felt him and knew he was real. Now I am one of the most successful people from my high school class.

Oh and there is many many examples of people who have had a destructive life of drug and alcohol abuse and have had a life changing moment completely reversing their bad habits and making their life far more meaningful.

"This Is It" is the first example of psychedelic music on record that I know of.

Alan's musings and ramblings are sheer genius - but still one man's thoughts.

The Bible is a collection of several individuals' thoughts in the case of the Old Testament, largely superceded by other individuals' thoughts in the New Testament decades, if not centuries after the event, and in some cases, overseen by the Roman authorities. Many gospels were stashed away and not included in the "original" - some of which were written at the time and therefore considerably more accurate as "eye witness accounts", which none of the New Testament gospels are. You could say that they're not exactly gospel truth...

There were originally somewhere around 80 gospels. The ones chosen reflected the Romans view - it was, after all, the Romans that finanaced the Bible.

Puts it into perspective really - but God is undeniable. Science cannot prove He does not exist.

But the Bible is just a book that the Beatles successfully replaced in the 1960s.

It fuelled centuries of bloody wars, horrible torture and tyranny, not to mention greed and self-promotion at the literal expense of others.

How can you justify killing in the context of "Thou shalt not kill"?

The Bible is a bad book with some good messages in it. It requires people to be selective in their approach in the right way. But how can you learn the right way from a book written the wrong way? Especially when most people are NOT selective, as we are not taught how to be consciously selective.


er... anyway... yes. Alan Watts = Genius.

How did you know he was real? I think my main problem with your explanation is that you give God the credit for cleaning up your act. However, did God force you to act that way? No. You cleaned up your act because you chose to. You recognized your freedom to change your life and you changed it by your will. You didn't need God to do that. You needed self-esteem and self-realization.

Secondly, telling me that "God touches people in ways your wouldn't understand" isn't a good argument. From that sentence you even assume I can't understand it. Why bring it to the conversation?

Their life may be more meaningful in the eyes of a Christian. However, giving God the credit for your actions deprives your life of meaning in itself. You choose to sacrifice the search for meaning by negating your mind. You haven't found it. You chose to recognize meaning in God. Is it really any more meaningful than selfish happiness?

There was no reason for me to change my attitude. It happened within an instant. I didn't want to change my ways but that day I realised I needed to from the overwhelming feeling I've got.

Because unless you feel God's touch, you won't understand, and you've just confirmed that.

I give God credit for providing the opportunity for me to be successful and make the most of the opportunities he provides. I have perfectly good self esteem thank you. Selfish happiness doesn't necessarily mean you are going to devote your self to others and live beyond your own wants and needs.

There were reasons to change your attitude. Looking back on the event you say it was better for you to change it. There is a reason to change your attitude. Whether you recognized it or not at the time has nothing to do with its actual existence.

I won't understand. Kind of like how you will never understand my garden gnome god who actually killed yours 10,000 years ago. You will never be able to understand so don't even try arguing against him. He exists, but I have no way of explaining that to you. So, I guess you will suffer from his divine wrath.

You do not have perfectly good self-esteem if you need someone else to control your actions. You view God's will above your own. God, a being you can't prove exists, could tell you to kill millions of innocent children. However terrifying that sounds, you must comply because his will comes before your own. That is your morality. God says so.

Also, for the record there is no such thing as selfless happiness and I fully endorse selfishness.