Inuzuka Skysword

And what does Alan Watts propose when he attacks logical positivism? Nothing. He proposes that we give the same system up which created the Seven Wonders of this World.

Terrible Lizard

I'm surprised that I've never heard of this guy.
Oh well, better here than some random pick on Amazon.

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cardboard adolescent

I don't understand how you could read that essay and get that out of it. He only 'attacks' logical positivism insofar as he points out its fundamental limit, that it doesn't give us a complete, profound understanding of reality. He actually affirms its usefulness. Quite ironically, logical positivism had nothing to do with the seven wonders of the world (hello, it's a 20th century movement), in fact, most of them were the result of religious inspiration (for instance, the Egyptian pharaohs were considered divine incarnations, similar to what Alan Watts believes). Mathematics was probably involved as well, but Plato would consider that a form of divine inspiration as well.

In a sense though, you're right, since he does refer to 'it' as no-thing.

Inuzuka Skysword

I understand he points out the limits of it and the fact that it is destroying itself. However, what is his view on epistemology and what will it give us?

Neapolitan

It might be a movement in the 20th century but it started in the 19th century with people like Comte and other positivism thinkers.

Not all Seven Wonders of the Ancient World were religious, (a religious light house for religious boats?) Even though in the ancient time some of them were religious in nature, it was during the Englightenment that they were redifine as scientific acheivements. The knowlegde that the ancients possess the technology to build the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World became a mallet were Secularist beat their drums with saying the Church stopped scientific thought & progress during the Dark Ages. Which isn't the case.

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cardboard adolescent

see for yourself. this is just a short excerpt from some book but i think it has what you're looking for (although i think that other essay probably had it as well)

The Tao of Philosophy - Google Books

cardboard adolescent

i said most and okay 19th century and... what's your point? i mean, it was a monk who started german idealism. the Church did some good and some bad, that seems to be the case with most institutions.

Neapolitan

My point wasn't to refute your point. My point was what I observe from people (no one specific at MB) that they believe the Medieval Ages were a break in continuity between the ancient world and the modern world (with it scientific and techonlogical advancements.) They believe science is the answer to life and point back to the ancient world, and marvel at there technological developements (sometime they mention the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.)

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cardboard adolescent

sure. most people also refuse to recognize the continuity between alchemy and modern science. a lot of people also adopt a lot of ideas that don't come from the bible but instead from biblical interpreters without taking the time to go and read all of the bible or st augustine. my personal belief is that without spirituality humanity gets lost and self-destructive, but also that most religions are historico-situational interpretations of the same spirituality, and hence should be updated as mankind finds itself in new situations.

Inuzuka Skysword

The wonders of the world were created with reason. They didn't build the pyramids without having some logical base, such as mathematics. They might have said that God was their divine inspiration, but in the doing it was reasoning and logic.