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It's no biggie. The discussion is actually a pretty good one, just the difference in theoretical and practical can have a person forming two different opinions on the same topic.
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I'll wait to respond Ethan once you move the thread other then to say really good response and I think it's relevant to the discussion though, because you're suggestion of socialism and freedom coexisting is a very intriguing one similar to the construct of proposed American Socialized Health Care.
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If it helps you JJJ I could explain my own political philosophy before we dive back into this. What I believe as it isn't really traditional Marxism at all in terms of the goal (this is where I guess it becomes socialist as opposed to Marxist) and I tend to lean more towards Trotsky then Lenin and there's other tidbits...that are just not typical characteristics of socialism.
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The only economic system we currently have that respects the individual's pursuit of his own happiness is capitalism. That is why I like it.
When you take away property rights the individual cannot see the most objective value of his work. In other words, the output of man's work is screwed around with to the point where man doesn't know his work's worth. That is not good for the individual. Property rights and personal responsibility go hand in hand. When society says that everyone must rely on everyone else it is lying. It is telling you a false statement about humanity. The fact that we have free will is undeniable. We cannot escape our responsibility for ourselves. The society that takes away property rights attempts to, but it will never work. It will never get to the point where a man does not have to fend for himself. Lastly, I view any attempt to distribute the wealth as materialist. The idea that one cannot succeed in a capitalist economy is false. That is because succeeding in life has nothing to do with money. Might it make life easier with money? Maybe. Will it help one achieve happiness. Never. P.S. I know I am jumping in at a horrible time. |
What gives you a right to property?
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What is rational in the pursuit of man's own happiness is what makes it a right. It all starts with the base right, that man may have a right to his own life. If that right is crossed, then no one on either side will experience happiness. It is a social contract. So all "rights" stem from this right to life. Anything that infringes on man living his own life is not a right. Of course, there is a hierarchy. There are some things that we consider rights that infringe on other so called "rights." Some rights are more important than others. That is why one needs a hierarchy. |
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i don't have a problem with wealth redistribution, if everyone is working towards the same goal... on the other hand i have a big problem with redistributing whatever wealth i've accumulated to those who just want a free ride regardless of their justifications. which then opens up a 'big brother' can of worms because there would obviously have to be some sort of system in place to ensure people aren't just mooching off the system. then again the best comment i've ever heard in terms of social ideals (it kind of applies to this discussion as well) if you're in your 20s and you don't believe in some socialist utopia - you don't have much of a heart. if you're in your 30s and you still believe in some socialist utopia - you don't have much of a brain. |
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in the society we live in we all rely on one another whether we like it or not |
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A society should take things\goods\people that are useful and work with them without being forced to work around those people and things that can not pull their own weight. You see what I mean? |
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