How Real Is Christianity?
 

Well, im probably going to guess most people on here are christians, and sorry to say that i'm not and the bible just doesnt give me enough faith to believe in god, im the kind of person that has to see it to believe it, whether or not that is a good or bad thing. anyway i was reading bits and pieces of the bible and it just has some flaws in it, lets list some shall we?

firstly, the snake taunted adam and eve with a apple from the tree in the garden of eden, correct? the garden of eden "was" located in israel, which is near the mediterranean. . . . .apples DO NOT grow in the mediterranean....

secondly, at one point there was only cain, able and adam and eve, so think about this, where did cain's wife come from?

i will become a christian right now if someone answers that question for me, to this day no one can answer it, it was used in the Scopes Trial (1925). NO ONE CAN ANSWER IT, where did she come from.

So seeing as how not even the biggest christian can answer this question, i will have to say there is no way to defend the biblical record. . . .

discuss.

1.) the idea of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Eden being an apple tree was made up long after the bible was published. There's no mention of apples in the bible whatsoever

2.) The story is a metaphor for the evolution of human concsciousness at the point where we began to perceive the false duality between good and evil. Don't woory most christians don't get it either .

3.)there was no Cain, Abel, adam, or eve, This story too is a metaphor. Again most Christians cant wrap their heads around that either.

^^ I didn't know you knew most Christians...:rolleyes:

Here we go.....:rolleyes:

First of all, I am not affiliated with any organized religion, much less Christianity. To assume that most people on this forum are Christians is kind of ignorant to me because you truly don't know the answer to that.

Now, when we speak of religion, Christianity is NOT the only religion that can be refuted. I view Christianity as the dominating religion - not just over other religions, but (and this is where some of you might feel I'm getting conspiratorial) I believe that Christianity is another tool the (American) government uses to control its people. As a whole, it's used to deteriorate any self-confidence, individuality and independent thinking. I just want to clarify, at this moment, that I used to be a Christian, went to church regularly and attended a Christian school for a year. Needless to say, even at 13 years old, the **** that went on at church services and schools didn't fly with me. It's some of the worse feelings I've ever felt being there. I've never felt more judged in my life than in a church. I'm not saying there aren't good Christians out there. Nor am I saying they are all evil, but much of what I'm getting at is that a lot of Christians aren't typically open-minded to different lifestyles, religions, ideas and people. Another thing I think we don't take into consideration a lot of the times is that these same people exist in other religions as well. This, I know, is an extremely controversial topic for many people, and I'm open to discuss it more. For now, I'd prefer to keep it vague and take a step back and see what everyone else has to say. It is possible to have this conversation without hostility and I'd like to see it happen that way. Lastly, I have a video on religion roughly 10-15 minutes long, explaining the origins and history of Christianity. If anyone is interested, PM me, but I won't post it so soon in the conversation.

How did I know you were going to be the first to answer? :bringit:

It's not too much of a guessing game is it?:laughing:

I couldn't be christian and take the bible literally .. Very few christians I've ever met actually do that at all!

By the way, I'm not a christian. Just wanna point it out. :p

Well you obviously haven't met most of them...;)

Also not a Christian here. Not surprisingly I don't buy into a much of the Bible either.

Damn. You guys fool me every time! I see a new post and I think it's discussion time ... Foiled again. I knew there weren't lots of Christians here, though.:love:

By far, I respect people's faith and don't feel it's necessary to attack them all the time (believe it or not). I'm more likely to bring up the subject when religious faith leads to something which I think is negative, like the idea of teaching kids creationist theories instead of scientific theories or if it leads to unfair treatment of people in society etc. Usually, I only meet people like that on forums and often, they're the ones attacking so then I play the role of defender against religion.

I may seem like it, but on the whole, I don't think I'm a very aggressive anti-religious person and I don't think there's much point in persecuting people for their faith if that faith doesn't harm anyone.

I have a love/hate with Christianity, because I love to study the bible and other religious texts, but I spent a lot of time in the church and felt that I could only fakely smile and nod when it comes to open discussion about the bible and personal faith. Christ's message has a great deal of spiritual wisdom inherent in it. It's unfortunate that all that wisdom largely goes ignored and his life has been turned into a glorified mathematical equation which gets us out of an eternal hell/heaven that doesn't exist.

SATCHMO, I agree, I think religious teachings and writings (not just christianity) can be immense sources of wisdom and philosophical insights. It's a bit sad to see that so many people don't treat them as such.

Sometimes when a metaphor is taken literally, it often distracts from what the metaphor is actually trying to tell.

Absolutely.

The Bible was written by many men that had supposedly talked to God and written the word from God. Personally I believe that even if God had spoken to them they would write down anything they wanted to add. People are known for being followers always needing something to believe in, Santa, Easter Bunnie whatever. Even if this God had some points of "facts" in the bible man could have and most likely did add things they wanted as well. There will never be any proof of any of this. All I know is God seemed so "evil" in the first bible and in the second seemed so touching and forgiving.

I do believe in something, I'm not really sure what. I do not believe in any bible.

It's a bit silly of God perhaps to trust several guys with this extremely important task of writing down his messages. Rather, he should've set his words in stone or something like he supposedly did for Moses on Sinai when he recieved the 10 commandments.

Its been said that Moses was high on some sort of natural herb and that why he seen whatever it was he seen. He was up there for what 40 days and nights.. more then enough time to carve things into stone.. and be stoned.:p:

Heck, why should he settle for stone? He is God after all, why not set his words down in some kind of unbreakable, unalterable divine substance. Then there would be no question.

I agree with what you two (tore and satchmo) have to say and I think it is possible to discuss this matter without attacking people, and if being offended is the result of reading someone's opinion, perhaps some further discussion is necessary, or even the complete opposite.

I can see why most don't want to contribute to this thread. I also see it as an attack. I am not religious, but this does not mean that I don't respect another person's belief. I believe that I practice this perspective constantly as I live right on the bible belt. I must admit that it is rather difficult to remain docile in dealing with Christians around here because they tend to push their beliefs on others. I see the spiritual benefits in religion, but also realize that I can be spiritual without religion.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Gandhi ... Is that really you?

actually, i'm Christ. and the devil a bit too.

Adidasss; the name you can trust in unabashed douchbaggery

Yeah, its largely metaphorical and the Bible really shouldn't be your faith center. Its a spiritual thing, you ought to feel it. Not read it.

I am not a christian, but I do not have a problem with people who are christians. I was raised in a chistian family and was forced to go to church for the first 17 years f my life, which I did not enjoy. There is a few things that I find that dont add up and if you bring these things up and ask the question to a believer they dont have any real answer except for that you have faith or they answer a question you didnt even ask. So, in the book of Genesis it states that god created the heavens and the earth and everything in between and that was the beginning of everything we know today, supposedly the earth according to the bible is, I might be off a bit but, 6000 years old. Now, nowhere in the bible does it mention anything about dinosaurs, which sience has proved to be arund for billions of year, there has been physicall evidence to prove this as well, and when Noah built the ark, if he did, there was suposedly two of EVERY animal on the ark when the earth flooded, again, where were the dinosaurs?? Another things which seems odd is the thought that jesus is the son of god, when whoever has read the bible knows that jesus was born to mary and joseph, and even if joseph had not gotta mary pregnant and god did plant a seed in mary that still would not make jesus the son of god, god would have to drop his own seed from his body in order to make a son from mary, so that seems kind of weird to me, I mean I dont know its extremely hard to believe this stuff when there are so many things proving it wrong

Also I've heard and learned in church that Jesus isn't the son of God but he is God just in a human form.

Yes I head this as well, It is another answer that doesnt really answer the question being asked when you bring it up to a believer, none of it makes any sence.

yes and that was a jewish church im guessing?

I dont know if you talking to me, but I did not go to a jewish church.

Now this is the crux of the problem. (And I'm noy directing this at you schredds I'm just using your post to highlight some things)
The aspect of Christianity that surrounds placing your faith in the idea that Christ was any more or less divine or god-created than anyone else is a man-made and borrowed concept.
Fundamentalists and atheists alike put all of their energy into proving and disproving, respectively, the historical accuracy of and biological validity of supernatural events, and in that apologetic process the wisdom that is inherent in the gospels gets swept under the rug, because apparently its not about "loving thy neighbour as you would love yourself" its about how the hell is it possible that mary got knocked up by a deity......its not possible. We try to make it about whether or not Jesus was resurrected from the grave and not about the personal rebirth and transformation that we are all called to to elevate ourselves to our next level of enlightenment. and it's not about whether or not god exists,but whether our lives and society benefit from believing that he or she does.

:clap:

well the only people i can think of that doesnt believe jesus to be the son of god is the jews.

As far as I know, most Christians believe he was both the son of God and a manifestation of God himself. Jews believe he was neither of those things and at most consider him a prophet.

Also, I think it's safe to say that basically everybody who isn't a Christian believes that Jesus was not the son of God.

yea i would probably have to agree with that lol

I think its pointless to question a religion... Debunk it if you want but dont half azz explain why its not sort of maybe kind of....

All religions are based on faith regardless of what you decide to follow...

having said that, lets just say this... What do you have to lose if you decide to have faith a certain denomonation?

Time, money, possibly intellectual honesty...

This was really it for me. Why spend time following a faith when all of your energy is spent trying to convince yourself of what you know to be untrue, and then be expected to convince others who don't want to be bothered in the first place.

Faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

not sure where else this debate/thread can go... but I understand the questioning. I do it from time to time... I find when I have faith and pray I feel better about things in general, I guess to me that is more important then trying to be the guy who can debunk particular aspects of religion. Religion in general helps and hurts equally I think... I guess it all depends on which side of the equation you fall into.

christianity is as about as real as science.

I agree with you completely, but I tend to fall on both sides of the equation.