.....no I'd still say that religious fundamentalists are more of problem than moderates. I highly doubt that fred phelps and "god hates f-ags" are given any credibility by anyone. I think they stand because of their lack of credibility....but what's your definition of a moderate christian?

so it's preferable to worship money over God? isn't the worst part of religion the institutionalization?

i propose we all worship the Sacred Void instead

Not at all

I'd say it's the Crusades and Martyrdom

....did he even propose an the "worshipping money" alternative. Why not just worship nothing?

...and why not state your opinion in plain english and not allusions to books you've read.

I find that it's not real at all. Most christians are hypocrites and single-minded.

That is not the worst part of religion.

Relativism is the worst part religion.

the Crusades, both as a historical event and as a metaphorical attitude, are completely a symptom of the institutionalization of religion. if everyone took a religious humanism/ chrstian existentialism approach and saw religion as essentially personal or with the sole goal of uniting people, such things could not be allowed to take place. as for martyrdom, to die for one's beliefs because of persecution by authorities seems noble enough to me. in the case of sacrificing one's life and taking the lives of others, this most of the time seems indefensible and requires serious religious doubletalk. the exception i would make would be in the case of a war in which the enemy is the aggressor.

in the case of terrorists, which i take it you're hinting at, i think there is a large degree of corruption through institutionalization where people who aren't actually blowing themselves up are convincing others mostly through social pressures and through a distorted justification through certain isolated passages. i don't think someone who had a clear, evolving, personal and direct relation with whatever social text could justify such acts to themselves.

a)that is what i proposed
b)i don't remember alluding to anything. i make my opinions as transparent as possible, but i wouldn't want you to see right through them.

it came from your saying 'exactly' to institutionalization being the response to religion. my point wasn't so much that we should put religious people in insane asylums, but rather that such a view says that we should take whatever the 'clinical view of reality' is and force everyone to agree to it or put them in an asylum until they agree. the 'clinical view of reality' would end up being whatever is 'mentally health,' ie, allows you to be a functional and productive member of society, which in turn is basically just the worship of money.

No Disagreement here

I think this is Chicken and Egg

If someone punches me in the face I'm not mad because their alcoholic father hit them and thus they transfer their frustration through physical aggression, I'm mad because they hit me.

....the proposal came from the assumption that someone or something has to be worshipped.