midnight rain

Yeah, but what is free will exactly? I mean, you can tell yourself "I'm going to make this choice instead to alternate my destiny" but destiny already knows that your setting yourself up to alternate your destiny and thus that's all part of your destiny. It's really quite a confusing topic.

sleepy jack

Free will is, as I said, "the ability to make your decisions and dictate your own future [with those decisions]" if it's all predetermined then guess what? You're not dictating your own future you're adhering to the plan of your life.

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midnight rain

Yeah, but it really doesn't matter because we'll never actually know if we have free will or not, it's far beyond our capabilities to grasp the concept. To us, it'll always be that we control our lives and that's really all that matters.

djchameleon

it's only pre-determined if you are a believer though

sleepy jack

Read the Bible or at least familiarize yourself with some basic theological tenets before making claims about it. If you're a believer then you have a specific lifestyle/path to follow as for everyone (including the entire human race) he knows all their thoughts, choices (future and past) and everything about them; a horrifying thought.

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midnight rain

Things I can't do anything about I try not to

Everyone has a specific path to follow to keep them in line, the law for instance?

sleepy jack

There's a difference between secular laws that are in place to keep domestic tranquility and following the teachings of a religion. I don't really know what you're driving at with that.

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djchameleon

i did that once....tried to read it from beginning to end...I only made it through the old testament and part of the new testament....I was raised christian.....so I know what I'm talking about.

I know exactly what you are talking about in your last post and you are right about that but I just never felt that way about it. I always felt/believed that I had my own free will based about a verse that I read in the old testament and I held onto it for dear life no matter what my pastor was trying to say. I was bring forced to go to church on sundays so maybe that's why I'm not as religious anymore but I'm still spiritual. I believe there is a God but a majority of the things in the bible I don't believe in.

midnight rain

No I just fail to see your point. So because he knows what we've done in life, we have no free will?

sleepy jack

And what were going to do (which I clearly stated in my post.) Predetermination and free will can't coexist.

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