Ever try a sensory deprivation tank?

can't say i have ready access to one of those, but if the opportunity ever came up...

There are known unknowns and there are unknown unknowns...

Well This is Easy
 

1. The Bible refers to it as a fruit, not an apple.

2. Go to Genesis 5:3, Adam fathered many men and women. Cain's wife was a sister of his, note that this was not illegal as it was in the Mosaic law, man was closer to perfection back then so the ill effects of incestuous childbearing did not affect them.

The story is not a metaphor, if that were true then a whole ton of crap in the Bible would be irrelevant (Jesus could not be the Greater Adam) and the promise of restoration of man's perfection would be false.]

Fire away any questions if you have any more.

If the Genesis is not a metaphor, why is there so much evidence out there that contradict it such as fossils, dating of earth rocks and meteorites and so on?

It is a metaphor, I'm Catholic I think I'd have some idea. I believe God used evolution as a way for the earth develop - there is such a thing as science being created by God as a tool for humans to gradually gain an understanding of the environment they live in order to continue to advance as a human race.

I've always liked this idea as far as combining both science and religion. I don't see why it always has to be so black and white and you have to pick one side.

Science is God.

"God" didn't create the sun and moon on the first day, so he had an eternity to create the historic world before creating the sun and, therefore, time and, therefore, observable 24-hour days and nights and, therefore, the next four days' creations.

Just a thought.

You know, rather than us worshipping a god of some kind, wouldn't it be cool if gods worshipped humans?

Yeah, if they would envy our earthbound mortality, respect our humble biological powers, and find entertainment in our banter.

There are stories of that nature somewhere out there. Sort of like how people in industrial societies occasionally pine for the "simple lives" of country folk.

Exactly

I've heard various story branches to that tale tree. Ever notice how the immensely popular/rich celebrities seem to isolate themselves from the rest of us? They don't get to interact, enjoy the simple things as easily. Some put themselves on islands with other popular/rich celebs, I've seen a couple of these islands and, though you might think it would be a party, it seems awefully lonely.

Maybe it's sour grapes, but I think it's lonely at the top.

Like Cavanherk said, the earth wasn't created in 6 days. The word "day" can be used for any amount of time (Old Testament Hebrew - SearchGodsWord.org), so most likely the earth is almost exactly as old as scientists believe.

Anyways, that is very interesting, at Genesis 9:8-15, God speaks of the rainbow being a symbol of the covenant between man and God, it says: "and no more will the waters become a deluge to bring all flesh to ruin." So God will never use a flood to eradicate wicked man again.

So, since there had never been a rainbow before, that suggests that there had never been rain until the flood being that a rainbow is the natural occurrence after rain and sun coincide. But, how could vegetation and life exist without rain? It is believed that in Genesis 1:7 the water beneath the expanse (the sky) and the waters (sea) was a water canopy that blocked a large amount of UV rays from the sun

From wikipedia: "Evolution of early reproductive proteins and enzymes is attributed in modern models of evolutionary theory to ultraviolet light. UVB light causes thymine base pairs next to each other in genetic sequences to bond together into thymine dimers, a disruption in the strand which reproductive enzymes cannot copy (see picture above). This leads to frameshifting during genetic replication and protein synthesis, usually killing the organism."

This portion states that UVB rays disrupt DNA strands, this could be why back before the flood people lived longer due to the water canopy blocking the majority of them and why the human lifespan went from hundreds of years to 70 to 80.

Now onto the evolution topic.

Man did not evolve. Nor did any other species, according to the Bible, God created Adam the man, not Adam the fish. So, evolution and Bible do not mix. Also, the Bible says that the animals and man were created in their kind, not what they would eventually be.

I may revise this if it is confusing or an error is found.

lol

Ewww.

That's very cool to hear.

And who was witness to and recorded this "historical" fact. It's a mythology.

"One of the difficulties of Dillow's model, as with most of the other canopy models, is the heat load or heat energy content of the canopy. The canopy must be somehow cooled from approximately 100 degrees C to the condensation point, the latent heat of condensation must then be removed at the same temperature, and then the liquid must be cooled to the present atmospheric temperature of about 25 degrees C. The potential energy (mgh) of the canopy must also be removed. Dillow shows that if all this energy were released in a short period of time, the temperature of the atmosphere would rise to 2,100 degrees C, an obviously impossible value. Dillow's model also does not deal with winter darkness near the poles."
Gary Morris - The Genesis Record



To use an ancient manuscript such as the book of Genesis as an authorative biological text on the origin and development of any species is an absolute and total absurdity. Genesis 1 is the Hebrew creation myth, NOT an objective account of the biological origin of our and other species.

If I get this right, day could mean any amount of time so if God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th, that could mean he worked hard for ~650 million years x 6 then took it easy the last ~650 million years .. and somewhere within the very last few hundred thousand years from now, he makes humans.

There's still the problem of all the pre-homo sapien fossils. How do they fit into this? Were they failed attempts at humans then? What about the other 99 point something percent of earth's history when there were other organisms around?

Can you see how just these two points would rather point towards Genesis not being a literal account of how our earth was created?

The water canopy "hypothesis" is just mumbo jumbo and - nothing personal - but it takes a certain kind of dull mind to not see how it is incredible - as in unbelievable. The flood was said to cover most moutains across our planet and our atmosphere simply can't hold that much water vapor and support life at the same time and that's just one of the angles you can disprove that hypothesis from.

Congratulations on discovering that UV radiation may cause mutations. About UV radiation and how that explains how people didn't get older, well - that doesn't hold up even slightly as a biological argument. There are other things than mutations that will cause problems with age such as the shortening of our telomerases (buffer sequences of DNA at the ends of our chromosomes) giving most of our cells a limited amount of life, cancer which is an inevitable consequence of a very long life and the fact that there are literally thousands upon thousands of other mutagens out there aside from UV rays that can disrupt our DNA. We don't even need external mutagens, sometimes cells just don't do such a great job at fixing errors caused by their own proteins.


If you reject evolution then you have to reject all modern science starting with what we've learned from biology because it's scientifically proven and if you can't believe that, then by default you can't believe in anything else science has proven by the very same methodology. Modern biology is all thoroughly based on our understanding of evolution. It's a foundation and it works - we can observe it, we can use it and it helps us understand the very earth we live on and all the other organisms around us. Dismissing evolution would be like dismissing the theory of atoms which all of chemistry is built up on if not worse because evolution gives us so much insight and understanding of ourselves, something knowing atom theory can't be fully compared to.

Another point here is then that if you reject evolution, then you might as well reject "scientific" attempts at giving credibility to the bible.

That's very interesting, I've always dismissed this part of the religious studies because science didn't support it.

The bible is storys and symbolism. You can't take some of the terms they use literally. On one hand, the bible is really basic, it had to be made this way. To get the "message" to people who could not read or write, the "message" had to be put into storys. It's what is called "oral tradition". The bible can also be complex, in the sense that there can be alot of interpretation involved in understanding it. I don't believe there is "one true Religion", which is what some Christian religions believe (and of course, THEIR religion is the "right" one). My feeling is that if you have faith in something and it makes you a better person without being unfair to those who believe in other things, you have found the "right" one. Everyone really wants pretty much the same things in life. Acheiving it without stepping on others is what we should strive for.

I concur.

when we get to 100 pages, Jesus will descend upon us.

I dig Christ and I would definitely say I'm an observer of His word, but I'm pretty strongly convinced at this point that organized religion in general is a joke with the kind of punchline that gives you a tumor trying to figure it out.

In other words, it's a bad joke.

Religion is smart business.

If Toshiro Mifune talks, you listen.

so returning to this website from quiet a break i have come to convince myself that there is a god. i really cant explain why though i think faith has just brought me to come upon to believe in him. he has helped me through many hard times. this may sound very stupid and corny but its the truth. without him in my life i would be lost

I always found it odd that people are open to credit God with fortunate incidents, but if someone unfortunate happens, uh, well, you know.

Did you ever figure out that Jesus started a Church.

Jesus never started a church. He was the inspiration for others to start churches in his name, but if anyone thinks that what we know today as Christianity or "the church" is a manifestation of jesus' vision & purpose, they're mistaken.

The other side of that point of view is that Jesus' vision and purpose was to start a Church. Jesus' message wasn't one of spiritual isolationism, but to unify people into the family of God. St Paul always taught that there is one baptism for the family of God, one Church of God.

The mistake is to believe that Jesus had no part in forming the Church of God on earth.

I agree with everything that you've manged to say here.

Having said that I reiterate the fact that there is nothing about christian doctrine which represents Christ's vision for his "church".

A lot of people say "well even if you don't believe in the bible you gotta admit it has some pretty great messages".

And that really annoys me, I mean yeah sure, it does have some great messages and clever parable. But it also has it's fair share of asinine bullsh*t.

I find so much of the bible's values and stories to be absolutely twisted. The old testament especially. Job, Abraham and Issac. What's the moral lessions there? Other than that God expects you to sacrifice everything and do any crazy thing he asks you to do, and you just have to put up with it.

How about the story of Lot? Yeah, apparently offering your daughters to a bunch of sex crazed psychopaths is ok in god's eyes.

Yeah, even though I was never a Christian I used buy the whole "gotta admit the Bible has some pretty great messages" line. Then I started reading it and realized I was totally wrong about it having good messages.

I'll take the Ramayana over the Bible any day of the week in terms of ethics.

I don't see why you have to make one solid choice, why not take your ethics from several different sources and avoid all the competition? Most of the good stuff is pure common sense in the first place anyway.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or not but I wasn't saying anyone should stick to one choice, I was saying the Bible is a poor choice.

Just a general musing really, sticking to one side isn't the best option for me.

I hear you. Me neither. :)

#1. There was nothing about apples in the bible
#2. There is a large possibility that there was other people on the earth when after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden of Eden.
I am a christian and I belive the bible fully. If you have any other questions about the bible please tell me and i will answer them. hope this helped!!!!!!

Well, since you now bumped an old thread that last saw activity in 2009, I guess we might as well try and make the best of it.

I do have some questions that I might as well ask you instead of looking them up. Why do you think it was likely that there were other people outside the garden of Eden? They must have been created by God too, but they were not allowed in the garden? Or were they not good enough?

And are all people supposed to be descendents from Noah?

I suggest you read the king james bible it reads the forbidden fruit of the tree and also in the original victorian bible no mention of apples and pears lol. Please if you have read from the new international version then you will find add ons and paragraphs missing which isn't good.You may ask why it's so different well it's for thickies just like yourself.
Always trying to find away out and yes there is! it's freedom of choice, but beware if you read the bible and know the truth but deny the truth in your own lives then you will feel the wrath of god with no reprieve. On a lighter note im sure you won't lol.