How Real Is Christianity?

midnight rain · 04-07-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue

I stand firmly against this. I don't need a role model to base my morals off of, because I have my own sense of right and wrong, and just because I don't believe in God doesn't make it any more or less "moral" on those terms. I don't need God to give me motivation to do good, I give myself motivation to do good because I believe it is right.

I really don't see how you can validate that statement. Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they don't have a will to do good, and to claim otherwise I think is ridiculous.

Please explain, on what basis to you think non-believers have no motivation to do good simply because they don't believe in your religion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibber

Right, so by your reasoning, atheists have no moral compass, and have no desire to do good.

Well, not only is that comment incredibly offensive, it's extremely ignorant. Since I'm conveniently an atheist, lets use me as an example shall we? I started volunteering at a homeless shelter at the age of 15, went to cambodia for 2 months (on my dime) to volunteer for a non-profit organization and teach english at an orphanage at 20, at 21 I worked at that same homeless shelter at home when I could have made more money at a boring office job, and now at 22 I just came back from an internship in Cameroon working for a non-government organization when I could have stayed in Calgary working for a newspaper. Now I'm working to set up a job (be it paid, or simply for room and board) in india working for an ngo.

My motivation to work in the non-profit sector most certainly does not come from religion. It sure as hell doesn't come from any desire for financial gain, and it's disgusting that you think that an atheist can have no capacity to desire to do good in the world. Long and short of it, you embody every quality of the arrogant ******* Christian that I really despise.

I don't know how much clearer I have to be, I already explained this damn well to you jibber. I'm saying by that post that I'm referring to RELIGIOUS MORALS ONLY. Perhaps you guys recall this post I made:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzz

That wasn't what I was saying at all. My point was that people who use Christianity as justification for their crimes can do so because there are set principles to Christianity that they can blame it on. When it comes to Atheists, they don't have principles based on religion. Maybe principles based on morals or laws or whatever, but not on religion.

Of course you chose to ignore this and go on a long diatribe about how all Christians have a “holier-than-thou” mentality, a stereotype that requires arrogance in itself to be used seriously. And yet here you are freaking out on me for ‘supposedly’ saying all non-Christians have no moral values, which is rather hypocritical in itself considering your branding of Christians.

Yukon Cornelius · 04-07-2009, 01:52 PM

I have one question based off of every single post in this room including my own.

Why would you attempt to question something that can't be explained? To me this thread though sucessful has been very redundant. I don't mean that in a negitive way but if you really look hard you will see the circle that this post has created.

You can't debate faith, thats why religion is so succesful. If you relate it to conspiracy thats were you get an arguement/debate, thats how you question every brainwashing verse. So in all realness you are questioning your ability not to be suckered into one of the biggest cult followings known to man designed by the powerful to keep you in line...

You only have faith in God because someone told you to.. Don't you see that? Who told you? And what happens to those who don't follow the path of "god"?

Hmm I thought we were free spirits, guess not. Its about as relevent as the f-ing lochness monster, but people have faith its real.. Oh, by the way will he go to heaven if infact he is real?? Is there a dog heaven? Cause I would hate to think that my dog will just sit in the ground and rot... Hmmm, guess its just another opinion just like yours..
God kills people when its there time? Time for what? What about the devil you can't have one without the other.. So I guess when we die and the worms eat our eyeballs were closer to him...

You can't preach in here zzz all you have is word of mouth, and dead ppl dont talk.

You can have faith in that.

midnight rain · 04-07-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

You only have faith in God because someone told you to.. Don't you see that? Who told you? And what happens to those who don't follow the path of "god"?

What the **** are you on about? I'd be willing to bet that half the people in this thread have been given a chance to embrace Christianity by someone else and chose not to. It's a choice, no one is telling me to do anything. This is the same as the cellphone bull**** you were ranting about in the other thread. You can't believe that someone would have a differing choice or opinion than you, so you assume that they are being told to do it. Some people like having cell phones and some choose to embrace Christianity, get over that hump because it's getting rather tiring.

Quote:

Hmm I thought we were free spirits, guess not. Its about as relevent as the f-ing lochness monster, people have faith its real.. Oh, by the way will he go to heaven if infact he is real?? Is there a dog heaven? Cause I would hate to think that my dog will just sit in the ground and rot... Hmmm, guess its just another opinion just like yours..

Yeah, an opinion I'm perfectly fine with. Don't come in here and tell me I'm being told to do something, I've chosen my path, have you chosen yours?

Quote:

God kills people when its there time? Time for what? What about the devil you can't have one without the other.. So I guess when we die and the worms eat our eyeballs were closer to him...

You can't preach in here zzz all you have is word of mouth, and dead ppl dont talk.

I'm not preaching about anything, you came in here and moronically assumed that every Christian is being told to believe what he believes in and that we don't have our own voice.

Find a new cause, the rebellion against the greatest power to exist is a tired one.

Quote:

You can have faith in that.

Is this your way of trying to end your post with something mesmerizing that will stop and make me think or just another lame, throwaway comment of yours?

Whatsitoosit · 04-07-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Basically you either have it or you don't

. If you question it you don't..

That's all there is to it.

I see where you are coming from on this... don't think it's so simple BUT the most spiritual people I've met in my lifetime always seem to "have it". I flip flop with it... so to say my faith is strong would be a lie but to say I have none would also be a lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzz

Agreed, I see far more good then bad coming from religion. Does it bother you all so much that people can have faith and waste a Sunday morning?

People seem to like getting hung up on the nut cases that spawn from religion as well, the molesting priests for example?

Well how about we compare that to the number of non-believers that commit crimes?

what do you mean by waste a Sunday morning? not go to Church? also, in the intellectual words of one of my favorite comedians "more people have died in the name of God, then any other cause/reason". I believe this to be true and I'm pretty sure Mr. Carlin did his research before presenting this to the entire world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzz

All I'm saying about Christianity is that it guides people down the right path, lots of people who could've done very bad things have chosen faith instead (I should know, I've talked to people who were thinking suicidally). People who don't have faith obviously won't use religion as justification, as their is no set principles for non-believing

to be brutally honest... the only reason I have my set of beliefs and follow the catholic religion is because I was born into it. My parents forced me to church every Sunday as well as Sunday school after church. Did it make me a better person? not entirely, I still sinned as much as any other person I knew (maybe more). What religion did for me was give me the idea "well, as long as I'm not killing anybody... I'm a good person and I should go to Heaven" and "if I kill myself, I will go straight to hell... so I better not do it". What makes me a better person today is the love I share with the people I surround myself with. It's wanting to do the right thing for them, and in turn for myself, which gives me the highest level of inner peace. I view going to church almost as being part of a social club that believes in the same thing. Who am I to say my religion is the right one? When I pray I pray to God... now, is this because it was taught to me at a very young age to pray to God? or do I really think there is a being just hovering over us waiting to hear my prayers? I simply look at it as a form of therapy that helps keep us in line... are we sheep? perhaps... but in the grand scheme of things as long as YOU can find a balance that keeps YOU happy while obeying the laws and values of society... then that's all one can ask for, regardless of what/who you believe in (if anything).

there are a few topics that will always just go in circles:

1) Religion
2) Abortion
3) War
4) Michael Jackson

Yukon Cornelius · 04-07-2009, 02:29 PM

Hmmm,

I notice that you left out who instructed you to have faith in god almighty.
You know that if God were real then he sent ppl to do damage here.. But the bible reads how we should be kind to our fellow neighbor, not murder the whole family. Thats the devil? So the devil sends "those" kind of ppl here? Like a counter attack on humanity. So does god make ppl autistic as well?

midnight rain · 04-07-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsitoosit

there are a few topics that will always just go in circles:

1) Religion
2) Abortion
3) War
4) Michael Jackson

True that, though I'm pretty sure that George Carlin thing isn't true

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Hmmm,

I notice that you left out who instructed you to have faith in god almighty.
You know that if God were real then he sent ppl to do damage here.. But the bible reads how we should be kind to our fellow neighbor, not murder the whole family. Thats the devil? So the devil sends "those" kind of ppl here? Like a counter attack on humanity. So does god make ppl autistic as well?

For God sake learn some grammar

Sleepy Jack has already instructed you multiple times to sharpen up on your English skills (as he so eloquently put it, "literallly a grammatical mindfuck"

). You understand that when you talk like that, I can't understand you right? As in, I have no idea what you just said

Yukon Cornelius · 04-07-2009, 02:40 PM

Holy crap, you just sinned..

Im at work and putting little thought into stiring the pot

midnight rain · 04-07-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Holy crap, you just sinned..

Im at work and putting little thought into stiring the pot

So, first the booze and then the work distractions...

Is there a time I can get back to you when you're on your game or do you have a clever excuse for wherever you are?

Whatsitoosit · 04-07-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Hmmm,

I notice that you left out who instructed you to have faith in god almighty.
You know that if God were real then he sent ppl to do damage here.. But the bible reads how we should be kind to our fellow neighbor, not murder the whole family. Thats the devil? So the devil sends "those" kind of ppl here? Like a counter attack on humanity. So does god make ppl autistic as well?

I didn't mean to leave it out... I figured it was implied. My parents instilled in me the idea of having a belief (faith) in God almighty. My own brain, past the age of reason, has been questioning this idea for many years now. I feel better when I pray to God... I also feel better when I have a big mac, an ice cream cone, an orgasm or a jog around the block. So it can be argued that these values that are instilled in us at an early age may release endorphins into the brain giving us that good feeling that only "God" can provide (just a thought I've considered). I tend to find things more universal then people like to think. Also, I find it funny when Atheists or anybody else looking at Christianity from the outside call Christians sheep. Where it can also be argued that anybody who requires/follows money to live their lives are sheep-like as well. Everybody has to play the game to get by, nobody here is immune to it, no matter who/what you believe in.

333 · 04-07-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue

I actually had just this conversation with a friend of mine recently. The fact that people twist the minds of children to benefit their own biased views of life sickens me, because that child has no chance and his/her mind will be completely warped. Though it's hard to say that because at the same time, those people probably feel they're doing good, because if they didn't preach Christianity (or whatever belief), they'd be "wrong" as parents. Also, without even trying, your kids will emulate you to some respect, so in some ways you're always casting your beliefs on them.

But anyways, overall I agree completely. It's almost as if you're robbing that person of their life before they even have the choice. How can there be a bigger crime then that?

I wrestled with this idea quite a bit, too. Not just in the sense of religion, but parental and societal influences in general. At one point, I realized that I've had very little control of my life. My parents never pressed their religion (buddhism) on me, but I chose to practice with them up until a few years ago. Even if they didn't, their personalities, habits and lives will forever be an influencial factor in mine - consciously or subsonsciously. Not only that, but the environment and society I was exposed to had definitely shaped me in some sort of way. It was not until I was 17 years old that I realized I was able to rebel and be my own person. I still, to this day, struggle with the idea that no thoughts are original (not even these). What we argue, say, express, fight for has been done before. Life is the epitome of "History repeats itself." Though some of what we say is worthy of repetition, with it comes the whole picture, including religion, war, power and poverty.

04-07-2009, 01:52 PM	#182 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	I have one question based off of every single post in this room including my own. Why would you attempt to question something that can't be explained? To me this thread though sucessful has been very redundant. I don't mean that in a negitive way but if you really look hard you will see the circle that this post has created. You can't debate faith, thats why religion is so succesful. If you relate it to conspiracy thats were you get an arguement/debate, thats how you question every brainwashing verse. So in all realness you are questioning your ability not to be suckered into one of the biggest cult followings known to man designed by the powerful to keep you in line... You only have faith in God because someone told you to.. Don't you see that? Who told you? And what happens to those who don't follow the path of "god"? Hmm I thought we were free spirits, guess not. Its about as relevent as the f-ing lochness monster, but people have faith its real.. Oh, by the way will he go to heaven if infact he is real?? Is there a dog heaven? Cause I would hate to think that my dog will just sit in the ground and rot... Hmmm, guess its just another opinion just like yours.. God kills people when its there time? Time for what? What about the devil you can't have one without the other.. So I guess when we die and the worms eat our eyeballs were closer to him... You can't preach in here zzz all you have is word of mouth, and dead ppl dont talk. You can have faith in that. __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid... Last edited by Yukon Cornelius; 04-07-2009 at 02:10 PM.

04-07-2009, 02:29 PM	#185 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Hmmm, I notice that you left out who instructed you to have faith in god almighty. You know that if God were real then he sent ppl to do damage here.. But the bible reads how we should be kind to our fellow neighbor, not murder the whole family. Thats the devil? So the devil sends "those" kind of ppl here? Like a counter attack on humanity. So does god make ppl autistic as well? __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

04-07-2009, 02:40 PM	#187 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Holy crap, you just sinned.. Im at work and putting little thought into stiring the pot __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...