here's a question taking it to the extreme of abstraction: why do things perpetuate themselves if not out of fear for ending? just for kicks?

the point is you CAN trace it back to something, and if that something isn't God or something equivalent like Truth, Love, Justice, or Goodness, which all reside in a "Heaven of Ideas," it's probably something kind of stupid/banal. like a chemical reaction.

Yep, just for kicks. The end.

because since homo erectus, the human brain has grown in capacity, and we now have the ability to do things for motivation other than simply surviving. Again, arguing for the sake of arguing bores the sh*t out of me, I got into thi argument because something ZZZ said grated against something I felt strongly against. Arguing semantics just for ****s and giggles is not something I enjoy doing, so I'll let this one die. You can say you won if you like.

I think it's a bit of both. I don't see anything wrong with a species fearing the end of its existence. However with the way humanity is going it's obviously we as a species aren't going to last very long but the Earth will ultimately recover (barring a mass nuclear war or something to completely ravage the Earth so it can't sustain or even create life) and there will be new species that will evolve - that's a different discussion though.

I think, when you examine people (this is just in my experience) many live for both reasons (this is also operating under the pretense no one believes in god.) I for one live solely for pleasure, or kicks as you put it, but I do know people, who are probably more noble then myself that want to see society continue to prosper and humans to live the way they do (in control to a certain extent.)

then what are "kicks?" if everything does it for the kicks then there must be some transcendent thing "kicks" that everything has access to, since it is the motivating factor for everything in the universe. everything exists for the purpose of 'kicks,' and 'kicks' exist for the purpose of breathing life into everything, and as such, i think this loosely fits a working definition of God.

intellectual superiority confirmed. phew, i was worried there for a second.

The hilarious thing is I was going to fake quote you saying almost this exact same thing. As a joke.

the great cosmic joke!

It's my opinion that corrupting somebody's mind is one of the worst human crimes. Especially when it starts from infancy. Its programming, pure and simple, and its something that I strongly disagree with.

I feel like I just lucked out in the parents department sometimes, because they explained Christianity to us in a fairly objective way, and then let us explore it for ourselves. And naturally, I see the initial Christian messages as no more than simple human morals. Be respectful, be accepting, be honorable, to everyone. Its when an agenda got involved is when it got perverted. That's when they started saying: "Thou shalt not kill... unless we tell you to."

I actually had just this conversation with a friend of mine recently. The fact that people twist the minds of children to benefit their own biased views of life sickens me, because that child has no chance and his/her mind will be completely warped. Though it's hard to say that because at the same time, those people probably feel they're doing good, because if they didn't preach Christianity (or whatever belief), they'd be "wrong" as parents. Also, without even trying, your kids will emulate you to some respect, so in some ways you're always casting your beliefs on them.

But anyways, overall I agree completely. It's almost as if you're robbing that person of their life before they even have the choice. How can there be a bigger crime then that?

And here you are mocking me and my religious beliefs because I "lied" supposedly. Your jab at Jesus is just as arrogant as anything I've said in this thread. For the hundredth (and last) time, I asked for facts from Atheists/Agnostics that god doesn't exist because that is there reasoning behind God not existing. If they have proof God doesn't exist, I want to here it. I have no proof other than my faith. I've made it quite clear that the only reason I've asked for proof is because that is what Atheists/Agnostics use to justify their non-belief.

And for the love of God (love, not hate), stop telling me I'm arrogant. I get it that you think that of me, it's been said and made very redundant and isn't constructive in the slightest. The comment I felt sorry about posting after I posted is arrogant, yes. I took the initiative and apologized to you and offered to remove it. You declined. Cut down on the abuse, honestly.

Yeah, I'm also condoning the kind religious people who do good every day but you don't hear about it because of the way our media is.

That's not logical fallacy, it's your opinion. And it's also not true, just because they hold to their morals for religious beliefs doesn't mean they don't do good for the sake of doing good. It's not one or the other, you can have both.

Most people (in my experience) find Christianity because they are looking for a movement that preaches respecting each other and following the word of God by being a model citizen. Other than that and the benefits you reap in the afterlife (where you'd have to be good in life anyways), there's no motivation for being a Christian. You don't get paid to be one. So people who aren't the kind of people who would do the right thing in a scenario that would benefit them more to do the wrong thing aren't likely to be Christians.