satanism is real satan told me so.

So is my imaginary friend. He told me so.

you're not clever, you're just catching on.

Hehe I know. I was hoping to kind of kill that joke and move on with the subject. I'm not an idiot.

now you're clever.

God still loves you.

Fuel for discussion:

"As long as Christianity is the dominant belief system America, we cannot afford to be biblically or theologically illiterate, regardless of our personal beliefs. To save the country, nit to mention the planet, we are all called once more to ask the most basic theological questions: 'Who was Jesus before he was the Christ? What does it really mean to follow him as a teacher and not just worship him as a supernatural deity on a rescue mission?'"
Robin R. Meyers - Saving Jesus From the Church

worshiping anything is unhealthy, I'm all for following the teachings of Jesus and letting God strengthen a person when they need it. As long as a person is aware of who they are, strengths and weaknesses I don't think following the bible as a guide will make one lose themselves. People have this black n white way of thinking about it at times, if you believe you're lost and if you don't you're lost.

I would agree on account of the fact that the Bible is pretty culturally significant. All sorts of good literature makes references to it. Any intelligent person must know the staple stories of the Bible (Adam and Eve, Jesus, David and Goliath, etc.)

I don't even understand how teaching the Bible as any other book would be favoring a religion. It has an undeniable influence on all sorts of great books. Teaching it as if it were a novel would be great in my opinion. Of course, their are parts that are more important to know than others.

I am a weak atheist. I still believe that some religious texts say some profound things to ponder about. I certainly believe that at least the Bible should be read. After all, we read Greek mythology.

I don't think that knowing the Bible will save the planet at all though. That claim is outrageous. Even that sort of "save the planet" attitude is poison in my mind. Then people forget about their own existence and start being-in-others and such.

Wonderful. xD

I think too many people shy away from knowing the bible just because they want to feel they are unique, or nonconformist. It's similar to an ignorant person feeling better about themselves not knowing the answer to a question then taking the time to read the book assigned to them in school. Life is too short, knowing about a religion won't make your life any better or worse, it's just information to use as necessary.

I agree with Skysword... the Bible should be treated like a great novel that has highly influenced a lot of people. Like Shakespeare or Jules Verne, I tend to just nod and agree when people bring up books they wrote that I never read... same thing applies with the Bible.

That's a bit silly. The most people I know who haven't read the Bible tend to be Christians.

Agreed. Whenever talking to Christians about the Bible I tend to find that they haven't read most of it, and I have.

It is because they don't have their own worldview. They take what their parents give them and never make it theirs. Therefore their devotion to it is very small. They usually don't care about any other worldviews for that matter. Some don't even know what a worldview is.

Of course, I would argue that any faith cannot be "yours" simply because there is no real reason to pick religion.

Who is "they?"

All Christians?

[QUOTE=pahuuuta;628737]Well, im probably going to guess most people on here are christians, and sorry to say that i'm not and the bible just doesnt give me enough faith to believe in god, im the kind of person that has to see it to believe it, whether or not that is a good or bad thing. anyway i was reading bits and pieces of the bible and it just has some flaws in it, lets list some shall we?

QUOTE]

You could watch the black & white movie "Inherit the Wind," I saw it on PBS recently and it makes a lot of good points, basically leaving it up to you and your perceptions, I think. It is great.

I pretty much sum it up like this: Religion is good, it bonds people and gives people hope, but religion is bad and is the cause for war and fear and self-trepidation.

There is a lot of power in a general understanding in the world's religions. It lets one observe and either agree or disagree, and take from the world's general beliefs and either agree or disagree and find a way of belief that makes you strive to be a good person.

If you're going to believe in something, make it something for YOU and don't worry about feeling like you need to believe, worship, or otherwise support any given religion.

It's a nice fairytale.

Almost like a fable that you tell kids.

Just like the boy who cries wolf teaches kids not to lie.

Cristianty tells them not to be a cunt in life and they won't suffer in hell.

It's as simple as that for me anyway. God = unpaid babysitter.

That is a great one-liner. I agree to a degree.

you're right, I should have said some people I know, including myself. Careless use of words on my part. As for Christians not knowing the bible perhaps they feel they don't have to? or they were just born into it and don't really care to? I've tried reading it, bores me to tears. Probably the wording, bible study is something I have an interest in just to understand what I'm reading.

The Christians who seem to have never read the Bible, or those who don't. Don't worry, I don't stereotype all the Christians together. When I was one I hated when people did that. Plus, it is plain stupid considering the diversity of them all. As an individualist it is sort of hypocritical of me to attack a collective, but all I am really doing is attacking the collective that adhere to the specific beliefs.

You seem to me to be pretentious as hell. Have you ever even opened the Bible? Have you ever studied even one book of it?

The Bible is really only good if you study it book by book. If you try reading it like on complete linear story it really gets boring. I don't really like the narratives and such anyways. Psalms, Ecclesiastes, and those type of books are my personal favorites because they are less narrative and more in depth.

I seem pretentious? :laughing:

I seem more ignorant than anything else. But just because I simplify it doesn't mean pretention or ignorance.

Yes I've opened the bible.

I liked the story about the snake and the apple tree.

And the one about Samsun, who had strength in his hair.

Lovely fairytales.

^_^ That's all I was making sure of.

Both of you are right.

You seem ignorant and pretentious...

It seems like you're trying to gain popularity... or look like a badass.

It sounds kind of like the little boys in middle school yelling "ANARCHY" where I live.

[QUOTE=Inuzuka Skysword;685917]
You seem to me to be pretentious as hell. Have you ever even opened the Bible? Have you ever studied even one book of it?
QUOTE]

Does studying the Bible subdue prentense or does it merely inflate pretense?

I do agree with the statement that faith can not be owned, necessarily--but why would someone choose a particular religion if they didn't have a reason?

Yes I want to apear to be a Badass on an internet forum by simplifying the idea of God as a nice fairytale/made up.

/facepalm

And you used the word seems twice, not everything is as it seems AwwSugar. :)

I'm a poet. I do things like that on purpose.

Fuck yourself.

Or rape the girls you wanted to before.

You attack something you clearly know nothing about. It seems like you are trying to sound smart by attacking something which is regularly attacked. Of course, these days one can bull**** there way around a true argument by just spouting out cliches.

What about Greek Mythology or Norse Mythology for that matter? They are just as much fairy tales. Albert Camus writes, "Myths are made for the imagination to breathe life into them." If you take the Bible as myth, you should be able to find some value by breathing your own life into it.

Neither. I was pointing out the fact that all he is doing is reciting the cliches to make himself look like a smart atheist.

You could have a reason such as your family choosing it and such. You can't have a real reason though. What I mean is that the choice's will would have never originated in you. Take for instance the idea that you choose a religion because it has a morality you agree with. Well, why didn't you just use that morality in the first place without believing in a god?

The reasons are illogical and therefore irrational.

Ooooh look at me I'm a poet and I do things on purpose and now I'm telling someone to rape people for attention.

Pathetic.

I said that the bible similar to a fable..

A fable is something in which, there is a story, but underneith that story, is a deeper meaning.. and morals.

Just like the bible.

The boy who cried wolf teaches you not to lie, the bible teachers you to behave or off to hell you go.

Hey, you're the one who said you wish you could rape girls.

Yeah you did say you didn't find rape to be morally objectionable.

You have read the bible, correct?

And do you consider yourself of a specific religion?

I read the fable of the boy who cried wolf, which teaches us not to lie.

I still lie.

Just because I've read it, doesn't mean I'm gonna live by it..

Yes, and each story in the Bible has a deeper meaning. What I have a problem with is that you read all sorts of stories with deeper meanings under them, but I don't see you throwing a fit about them. I doubt you do. What is the last fiction story you read?

As far as Bible teachers telling you that, I am pretty sure the religious text is where you will find the religion. The people demonstrate it and it becomes tainted. I don't think that being poor is awesome simply because there are a couple of starving artists creating good art.

I would consider myself a weak atheist. I am a weak atheist in that if I ever found a reason to not be one I would surrender my beliefs. However, atheism is the most rational option. Of course, the term comes no where close to describing my beliefs about things.

I have read the Bible probably numerous times. I was a Christian at one time, one who read the Bible.

Have you read it since you stopped being a Christian?

I know what you mean.

Isn't it logical to seek self-preservation? Therefore, isn't it rational to choose a religion? To work toward some type of rewarding existence after life?

It's logical to run as fast as possible from a predator to live another day. How about living as well as possible to live another life, or an afterlife? Maybe the question isn't in the reasons...but the human nature to "survive." Could it be human nature to gravitate to a religion, given the awareness humans have of impending, inescapable death? Doesn't that become a reason to certain people who otherwise were not raised into a particular religion?

I'm not religious but I am not atheist. Just observing and learning...trying not to take any sides in this discussion. Now, back to the music banter...for now.

Who Moved My Cheese.

You have a problem with how I've read all sorts of stories with deeper meanings under them, but I'm not throwing a fit about them.

Since when was I throwing a fit about the bible, I'm just saying they are over-dressed fables.

Then throw a fit about Goldilocks and the Three Bears

Bears can't talk.

Again, I said it was a book of fables.

Hardly throwing a fit is it?

/facepalm

Let me put it this way. My goal in life is to be as happy as possible. There will be things I have to do in order to get there. One thing would be to find out what my destination is, happiness. What is happiness? I figure it out. So now I have to find how I am going to get there. This is a morality. So I get my morality. Now I must go to my destination, or live by my morality. I do so.

Where does a god fit in this picture? Where he would fit in would be in the area of the destination. Basically, believing in a god and such becomes part of the goal. All religions create that goal for you to follow. However, is it really your goal? Nope. It is the goal of the religion. Basically, your existence would then be wasted on living for a goal that has nothing to do with who you really are. You will never enjoy it.

Now let's look at it differently. Let's say believing in a god becomes part of your morality. In other words, let's say you believe in a god in order to achieve that happiness. This is what you are describing. Your argument is that one could believe in God because it is part of our nature. I disagree because I don't believe humans have any nature. Existence precedes essence. You say that we might believe to escape death, however I would like to ask how this would lead you to your goal of happiness. How is one happier thinking that they will live a day longer than they might have? One isn't happy until he is in that moment. We have no clue of what life after death is. How can you possibly enjoy something which you have no true conception of? You might believe it is better, but is there anything you have to do to get it? If yes, then I would question how this specific morality makes you happier.

Yes, I read it occasionally. I also try to read the Quran, but I have no clue how to understand it. I have to ask a Muslim friend to help me read it.