cardboard adolescent

Are obsolete, necessary, inane? Discuss.

Freebase Dali

Heh.. I was just talking to my dad the other day about how sexist he is. He had been telling me that he treats women with respect after generalizing about "women's importance in the kitchen VS. women's importance in the workplace".
There's no educating this type of person. He grew up in a time where gender roles were a part of every day life, and through the years he saw it change and he feels like it's a change for the worse.
What he's really fearing is that man's grasp on the upper hand is slowly giving way to independent women who're able to do things for themselves. Women know it, and men like my dad can't stand it.

Gender roles were the product of environmental influence. Our societal environment is a lot more accommodating now than it used to be, so gender roles aren't serving the purpose they used to. Any gender can go out there and do anything and be successful. To remain tied to a tradition of expectation that's obsolete in today's world is not necessary. But hey, if both parties agree to it, then who's to say they're wrong... Ultimately it's up to the individual, right?

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Bane of your existence

Don't get a male acting like a male confused with misoginy. I'm as much of a feminist as they come, and fully believe women should be treated with the upmost respect.
But men acting like men is innate, and vice-versa. This going over the top to act like the opposite gender seems so trendy and speaks to an annoying culture to me.
As far as "roles" in the household go, they are obviously a byproduct of environment. That's not what I'm talking about.

sleepy jack

What does a "male acting like a male" mean exactly?

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Bane of your existence

Protector, more aggressive, less caring.

Again, ton of subtleties here. I know the kinds of people it seems like I'm identifying with. It's not like that.

As far as dudes plucking eyebrows to look good and all this, it's fleeting, I hope.

Anyone can live any way they want in my eyes. No pressure.

sleepy jack

How are those innate? I can think of plenty of males, who don't pluck their eyebrows or wear tight pants who are far more "feminine" by those standards masculine. I'm one of them - I've never been the dominate one in a relationship and I rarely ever (in real life) actually get angry or upset. You could argue this comes down to how I was raised but by the same token my upbringing was fairly ordinary and there's no reason that I should go against what is the nature of a penis according to you.

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Freebase Dali

Males adhering to a natural inclination that has no societal influence, like aggressiveness, has absolutely nothing to do with socially imposed expectations.
If a guy is more aggressive than a girl, it's not a gender role. It's a fact of nature. And if it's the other way around, like a guy being less aggressive than a girl, it's still nature. If you don't believe that, then you're in the school of thought that reasons homosexuals can change their sexual preference. No. Doesn't work like that. It's not an environmental cue.

And, as far as "dudes plucking their eyebrows", well I guess that's just a personal choice. I think they look ridiculous too, but they're involved with how they look so they can score some ass. It may be a passing thing, but it's not a role that anyone is expected, on a large scale, to adhere to.

Your argument has nothing to do with the original post idea.

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Kamikazi Kat

I think it means a male acting like society's standard for what a male is suppose to be. Say a male is kind of the leader of the household, makes the rules, makes decisions, goes to work and makes the money. Many fathers aren't doing that because they are most capable for doing this because they have good leadership skills and a great job, but simply because they are trying to live up to society's expectations of what a man is suppose to be. The same goes for women.

TheBig3

well you weren't, but if you ask me, what determines someones manhood shouldn't be based on assigning other genders roles. Its like that old deconstructionist argument; once you call an object by a name, you can no longer call other things that aren't exactly the same but the same label.

i.e. defining a man should not limit what a woman can do, be, or be seen as.

The men I've known in my life that I would say are the most masculine, and therefore idolized in my eyes have a few consistent traits.

1. Silence through struggle: My grandfather raised 4 kids, two that weren't his and worked three jobs so he could support them all. He didn't go back to school to get his G.E.D. until he was 40 because he did what he had to do. He like so many of his time never complained. Can only men do this? no. It is however something you tend to find more of in men, to shrinking degrees because of the "me, me, me" culture.

2. Steadfast. Men tend to be overly arrogant when their young. I think its an effect of testosterone. But by the time you're 30, you ought to have an idea of who you are and where you stand. Saying you made a mistake is fine. But changing with the wind to appease or to placate is not a trait traditionally defined with "man." This occasionally crosses over to "stubborn" or "ignorant" but don't confuse...

"we're doing this because I said so"

and

"no thanks, that's just not me."

The formers an ass, the latter as masculine trait.

3. Self-reliance. This one is riding the border here but it is what it is. Men, for better or worse, tend to find a virtue in handling things alone, not because they don't need anyone's help per say but because independence is always an option they should have. They tend to push this out on to their children and the like. Often confused with a lack of emotional concern, self-reliance tends to be the most redeeming of all lessons learned.

Again this is just how I see things. I'm sure some soc.101 moron is going to come in here with a soap box and some bumper sticker arguments but thats my opinion.

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I've moved to a new address

Bane of your existence

This is what I would have written if I didn't suck.