I bet if he was a millionaire he wouldnt even know who you are.

yes its why i have an opinion about this... Like i said it is a conspiracy, It could be such a wonderful coincidence or it could be truth. Much like that of what you know it could be a conspiracy as well, that's why its so easy to pass it off for you since one day you hear that there might be more going on then meets the eye...

You should watch the video before you post with the idea that its bull****. Then you can post and attempt to debunk it. Or you could make posts based on what you know. Im not asking you to say omg were all doomed i just figure it couldnt hurt. Also with so many ppl with your ideas it would be even easier to do what you think is bull****....

Yukon, no good will come out of questioning Obamas rule. You should forget about it, or else you're gonna find yourself in deep waters .. this is way over your head.

Freedom of speech...

Like I said in my earlier post, I have much more productive things to do with my time and life, then think about something that I, looked into, learned about, and got enough inormation about to know is bull****. Seriously man, it amazes me. Im not going to sit and watch that video just like Im not going to go to church anymore. I dont believe something because I see it and I for certain dont believe something because I heard it, I educate myself with information on the subject and decide for myself weather Im gonna go with it or not, no one plants ideas in my head, thats not how I roll, and this whole conspiracy theory business is just that; planting ideas in peoples heads.

You contradict yourself by being here....
Not to be mean but is that more important... The reason i am here is an attempt to inform on information i already know...

I agree with you on the fact that it is for you to decipher but that's hard to do without the info provided.

I still appreciate your thoughts...

dude what the **** are you talking about, that doesnt even make sence, I contradict myself by being here, are you ****ing serious, at least I have enough of a brain to know what is bull**** and know when someone is trying to convince me of something that clearly is being made up by someone who has about the same IQ level as yourself, which in case you havent already found out isnt very high. You can sit there behind your computer and pretend to be some prophet bringing us all this information you know so much about when in fact the only people that believe or agree with what your saying are the people that already bought into all that at the same time you did, I guarantee you this; you are not going to convince any level headed person that what your saying is the way it is. End of story.

You said you had more important things to do with your time i was just noticing one of them.... Music banter time well spent, debating on what you don't believe in.

your IQ is based on your ability to retain information not what you know.

dont be a smartass you know damn well what Im talking about Yukon.

Does that make mine better than yours, no cause i bet you wont say that again... IQ's were designed to find learning problems in kids and things like that. Yes you may figure things out faster but it doesn't mean your more educated on something you know nothing about...

Im not trying to start a war... Im just trying to figure out why you are so bent on this subject...

And yes i do know what your talking about.. I cant say your wrong just like you cant say im wrong, I just find it hard for you to debate with me on something that you havent seen... Kinda like if ppl were discussing a movie that you hadnt seen you would obviously stay out of the conversation. Thats whats going on here if i am not mistaken...

You still seem headstrong and thats cool but your argument is fueled by one side of the coin... Who really knows but why not find out ??

Let's say hypothetically that everything in that documentary is true, wouldn't those who question the new world order be the first up against the wall? Be smart, don't worry about it.

Its just about being aware and having the ability to look past pointless things that are made to keep you unaware such as earth hour... I understand to that in a world of conspiracies that this to could be designed to get me to look away from what is really going on in the bigger picture just like anything else, but it has something that I like, meaning.

Either way I would consider that its just another possibility and am sharing that with you. The way i see you would rather pretend that it is all good. I wont stay up long hours and worry either but I do like to know.

Yukon here's what you're going to do. You're going to state the main points and thesis of this two hour video and then intelligently argue you it with me. If you can do this I won't lock all your threads and treat all your posts in this forum as spam and therefore a bannable offense.

Let me put it this way:
I voted for Obama and in doing so carried with me a great deal of hope that our country was on its way to recovery. I am not a republican and I would probably consider myself as radically liberal as they come.
I was more aptly prepared to see the movie because I've seen Zeitgeist which does a lot to explain the reality of this country's political and non-political power structure and the hidden dynamics behind some of the most notable events in American history.
I started watching The Obama Deception with a great deal of trepidation and skepticism. I personally did not want anything negative that was going to be said about Obama our his current administration to be true and I actively sought out anything that seemed to be even remotely lacking in credibility. the truth is that the movie and the facts presented are more credible than I would have wanted them to be, and the only reason I did'nt walk away sick to my stomach is because , as I said, Zeitgeist had given me some preparation for this film.
I personally believe that its futile to debate with anyone hasn't or wont watch this documentary. I think that's Yukon's main error in this. Yet on the other hand Yukon did start this thread with the stipulation that no one should post without first watching it yet that's what everyone did! I'm the only one besides Yukon that watched the film and I'm the only one besides him who believes it.
Its not a matter of Yukon being gullible or a conspiracy theorist; their not his ideas there the ideas of a well documented film with facts that are backed up by credible sources. If you'd prefer not to alter your paradigm of the reality of the political and economic systems of the country don't watch the film and don't post in a thread that tells you not to if you havent.

Here is my Thesis for you sleepy...

The first and most obvious point...

Obama is the Change that Americans needed. With promises of hope, jobs, troops coming home, not to mention keeping lobbyist and donors out of his administration etc... That's great but if you look at the things he has done thus far its completely opposite.

Basically he was the perfect fit in a time of need, I agreed originally, but now see that I just like most of America was duped by false promises. If you didnt like bush your going to Hate Obama.. Ill tell you what if you kick me out over this thread and you start realizing that you cant wait for someone else in the white house in about 3 years then I feel that should be my ticket back not that it means that much to me I think it would just be nice to say I told you so.

The other side to the coin is that everything is getting better...

As we bail all these companies out that are falling down Americas debt gets larger, and the banking elite get richer.

The other point was that the economic recession is obviously done intentionally, this obviously not the first. You see with the economy at its peak everyone has everything they could possibly want, when things change such as fuel prices, which had no reason to go up it makes everything more expensive. Food, gas, natural gas, plastics, automobiles... Then what happens??Standards change ppl cant afford what they have anymore and then Kaboom .. Now you have people taking out loans even though they cant afford to pay them back, gas prices are worth more that a gallon of milk so people cant afford to drive there vehicles anymore, now they cant purchase vehicles either car companies going down... These loans most took out were to avoid bankruptcy, they got loans while there credit score sub par, and some even good and it only jammed them farther into debt and if the people cant afford to pay the bank back the bank goes down... then you have to line the pockets of the banking elite so they can buy up more banks so on and so forth.
Not to mention the cost of war, but he we were promised the troops would come home, I guess that means send 30000 more over there and double our presence, to only further line the pockets of the greedy.

Point 3
Right now if you read the current events, you will notice that gitmo is going to be shut down that was a promise as it was not civil. However it gets worse, now you just have different locations were these ppl will be tortured and that's all good with you know who. It was quoted that is was essential to have such facilities.

Point 4..
The need for a civilian army.. Whats wrong with the national reserve and the Coast Guard?? Im in one of them wont tell you which that's besides the point, and thanks for my paycheck sucker. Either way the need for a civilian army?? The points are valid, as you and I both know and can both agree that we will never really know the bigger picture until it smacks us in the face. Think about this, around the US right now they are strengthening prisons and fema is building camps all over the country?? I want to know why? And how come we need 20000 or so army men patroling the us?? Because ppl need protection? Nah we all have guns.. But not for long well nothing worth shooting at anyone... Its obvious, because once people start to see the belly of the beast its going to be anarchy in the us... Worst than watts around this mother Fugger... How about you? what will you do? Hell I might be having to push you along if you get out of hand who knows DOD dir 1404.10 that would be obamas personal million strong army notice the directive states that they would stay away from the office work and be a soldier, that would be all his, and if you look at it they are there to flock the anarchists who will protest the hell out of this once the see it, you should be able to choose unless you are in a draft which we are not, but i guess its cool to enslave ourselfs ... You by the way have yet to state where you are from... So pardon me if you are form somewhere other than the US.

5. Don't mind me on this one but if there are two sides to the coin should you ban me for having different feelings than you?? Food for thought.

6. Before long We wont be alble to discuss these things because the "fairness doc" is about to limit the infomation availible to you via the mass media. That right there should piss you off. You will see this happen not just to the internet, but any form of media.

7. Dictation of health Care.
By pushing federal funded health care you will not longer have the options that you used to. You can look at it as a good thing if you want but how can you regulate health care... This will make jobs go straight to hell, ... And by the way my health care when i say my i mean mine not my depns.. SUCKS. Im talking needles breaking off into ppls arms for just a simple hiv test... Multiple stabs to hit the sweet spot since there education on heath care is the same as the sound a fart makes...

8.Africon??
Why would we need that.. I say this assuming you have heard of that.. To take over the resources FROM EVERYONE THERE.. I will finish tomorrow i have to go to bed.... etc btw

OK I'm going to take a stab at doing the same thing with hopefully a lot more clarity and credibility. give me a few.....

I can't watch this crap. It was funny even compared to American Zeitgeist though (with problem less than half the few facts that actually had.) I mean for fucks sake, they said Obama wanted to federalize the states! How moronic is that? Before you even argue perhaps you should post these "facts" backed up by "credible sources."

What is africon? What is fairness doc? What's up with the national civilian army? You wrote many words, Yukon, but I'm having a hard time understanding all of it. I think you should try and explain it to those not from America. We don't know about all the changes you are going through.

My last two posts before this were actually jokes, but I guess they flew under the radar.

Well, to be honest I'm American and I watched the movie and I was rather confused by yukon's post.

Every politician pushes their rhetoric to impossible highs and unrealistic standards. It's how you get elected. People love Obama because he presents this image of a blank slate Democrat who is the anti-Bush and Bush was a symbol of negativity. Politics isn't nearly as complex as people seem to think.

Also he has inspired many Americans and made them hope, so he did come true on that promise (which is a difficult one to make because you can't force it.) His economic action has ultimately been the stimulus package, you can't judge whether or not he's created jobs yet. Silly criticism.

And now we get to a central theme through this argument sources sources sources! What lobbyists and donors has he appointed?

Yeah but you also think the world is going to end in 2012 so why does it matter?

Of course this was intentional; but it has more to do with deregulation, bad policies and bad planning than some plan conducted by a banking elite in hopes they'd get government bail outs someday to cover their asses for all the money they originally had but lost (which makes perfect sense doesn't it? Who doesn't love a roundabout method of getting wealth!) And now I'm going to repeat my shout of sources sources sources! Because if you're going to lie blame on some hidden elite group you should first prove their existence outside this "documentary" and then explain how they managed to pull all this off and more importantly why they pulled it off.

Also since you're making a claim that goes directly against he known history of the economic crisis you might want to disprove what has been reported for the last ten years in regards to the economy. I suggest you go back and look at some Depression-era legislation and if it's still enact today, then examine what all Clinton/Greenspan did and then Bush and also look at each of the banks and how they've failed and see if they really did all those stupid things like give out bad loans or it's just a big bad lie constructed by Obama.

Iraq is about imperialism. It's that simple; no secret banker is making money off it. This war, which has been ridiculously expensive, has helped bring us into the economic crisis were in. It's been losing money since day one. In fact it's silly you even knowledge an economic crisis exists and then turn around state that there's actually been big profit in Iraq. The only argument there has to do with oil - which is an entirely different subject unrelated to Obama (who can't be blamed for the situation were in.)

It isn't okay with you know who. Obama's specifically banned waterboarding, the preferred method of torture by the Bush administration. He also stated the United States doesn't torture. By closing Guantanamo Bay he's allowing the justice system to handle them - something Bush wouldn't do. Bush had them in legal limbo where we could ultimately do whatever we want with them and ignore any international agreement and the Geneva conventions all we want.

Obama isn't shipping them off to different camps (sources and locations.) That wouldn't work now anyway seeing as groups like the Red Cross and various humanitarian groups are now far too tangled into the treatment of the prisoners to allow that sort of thing.

Obama isn't building a civilian army. That quote was taken so horribly out of context I'm amazed anyone has taken this "documentary" seriously. He was talking about expanding groups like the Peace Corps; it was a call for an era of voluntarism and community service. It was no gestapo. Here is the full context of the quote so everyone can this lie in all its glory.

As far as the FEMA detainment camps go...I don't know where this hoax came from. I know it's loosely rooted in something Ashcroft either did or tried to do but it isn't something that has anything to do with Obama (and I don't believe it had anything to do with FEMA either.) Again, source something factual and legitimate on this issue because there's nothing but sketchy conspiracy theorists backing that up.

He can't ban your thoughts; that's just impossible. Accusing him of trying to do that is just being silly. As he himself said; he isn't the Messiah. He has no magic powers. He is just a charismatic leader.

The Fairness Doctrine isn't some brand new plan that Obama cooked up and it isn't all that mysterious, in fact we had it up until the late eighties. The Fairness doctrine is simply a policy that says news must be presented in an objective and honest manner as opposed to a propagandist and partisan manner.

The Democrats and by extension Obama, haven't even been pushing it anyway. All the talk of it came from conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity who were trying to twist the policy for what it really was. Admittedly it's understandable; they wouldn't be allowed to do things like call Obama a Communist, refer to him as a negro or compare him to Hitler.

Anyway your entire explanation of the Fairness doctrine is a lie and shows your own ignorance. It doesn't even apply to citizen's speeches laws or the availability of information. It only applies to how the major media presents that information.

Almost of all this makes absolutely no sense. For one jobs are going to hell because the system of health care in the United States is broken and corporations, small and big, are being weighed down by having to supply their workers with health care and the vast majority of citizens can't afford it. Every other industrialized nation in the world has universal health care and they manage to regulate it fine (in fact your first three sentences or so are basically disproved by this point.) Also you still have the same options you use to. You can pretend you don't have health care and avoid going to the hospital when you're sick since this system is so corrupt.

I'd also like to add many people voted for Obama and support the Democratic party purely because of their stance on health care reform and more importantly a more universal system. It's one of their key party platforms and is largely why I lean towards the way the Democrats govern as opposed to the Republicans.

We've already taken over the resources from EVERYONE THERE. Obama didn't colonize Africa and enslave it's people, no matter what you try and insinuate.

Now onto a little bit of advice. You need to figure out what the exact thesis of the movie is. I only watched about ten minutes of it and read some things on it and even I realize that the thesis has more to do with Obama being a puppet than the anti-Christ and doer of all evil. For one there is no conspiracy theorist cynical enough to try and convince you that Obama has been active in politics long enough or that he's influential enough to have brought these problems (some of them five years coming, some of them thirty) upon America. However when you read your post...it's not clear what you're trying to argue.

I'd also encourage you to source outrageous claims you may even find this movie is deliberately misleading. Again I only saw ten minutes but in those ten minutes I spotted several distorted points and lies. Right off the bat they started talking about a Civilian National Security Force as if it was a call to create a secret police. Obama was talking about funding and having just as much activity in groups like the Peace Corps (who are no secret police) as in the army! It was a call to be a positive force in your community and in the world and finding out about that speech actually made me think more of Obama's approach to foreign policy then I did prior to this (though I still don't think much of it; it was better than McCain's though.)

I don't know what Africon is either but the Fairness Doctrine is summarized nicely by wikipedia: Fairness Doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia As you can see it's an old policy (which the American Democrats haven't really pushed despite the Republican media, who are guys like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly, talking about it obsessively) which doesn't really match Yukon's incoherent...thing on it.

No, I think it's pretty fair for people to want to voice their opinion on a matter without sitting through a 2 hour video. Especially when posted by Yukon, who has pretty much been dismissed as an idiot the by the hive mind of music banter. Without being petty, someone with an eight year old's grasp of mathematics is not someone whose political opinion I respect.

People repeatedly asked him to present the film's argument in a concise form, and to his credit he did. Sleepy Jack humoured him with a legitimate rebuttal, and he gets to try again.

I was half asleep when I wrote this so you have to give me a chance...

Yes this video was to show you that he is not worth getting all excited over, He follows all the same plans as Bush... And its funny to how silly people got over him.

either way I will explain better later.

That's fair, but I do have to say that Yukon's synopsis of the film had little to nothing to do with the video and I feel he ignored most of its central arguments. What he did choose to highlight made no sense or wasn't even a part of the video. I would go through the process, but I feel I have wisdom and intelligence enough to choose my battles, and I sincerely do hope that I am just buying into a load of rubbish.

I apologize for my disoreinted order with the events in this film. I was tired as hell.

This is to sleepy... I was not talking about Obama banning my thoughts... I was talking about you..

Don't mind me on this one but if there are two sides to the coin should you ban me for having different feelings than you?? Food for thought

He can't ban your thoughts; that's just impossible. Accusing him of trying to do that is just being silly. As he himself said; he isn't the Messiah. He has no magic powers. He is just a charismatic leader.

I never even implied I was going to ban your thoughts. I only stated that you're either going to abide by the rules and standards of this forum or I'm going to start treating all your posts as spam. Post your rebuttal.

Sleepy...

Thomas Jefferson wrote..

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties then standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

Why such a strong statement? Because it is absolutely true.
The Banking elite will have duped us all...

Until someone can prove me wrong which by the way is impossible to do I will remain in this state of mind though not loosing sleep...

These people will squeeze the life out of all of us, take our money and security its only obvious that its happening now and will continue to happen. Then they will provide you with the basic essentials (starting with your health care) then make you believe everything if affordable until your choices are reduced into their plan. They don't care about you!! These are the people funded our Brand new presidents Campaign.

Our tax dollars are not being used for bail outs. The Federal Reserve (this law evading privately owned company) printed and gave it to banks. Guess who owns 80% of AIG now??

These smaller banks were taken under deliberately on loose very loose loans... A man panhandling one day could go buy a house the next (exaggerated but really) Who does that anyway NOBODY .. The problem is they weren't bums when they originally got the loan .. They were reduced into bums when everything started to make less sense. Blame the Chevy Yukon all you want but this was not the reason. It was a design not a problem. Now they will help them with there dues and interest in mind until there monopoly is complete...

"I know how hard it is to be seen helping out banks right now", "Especially when everyone is suffering in part for their bad decisions," " I know I get it"
B. Obama

Let us examine one particular statement here:

I'm assuming a grammatically proper and coherent translation which say something to the effect of: "Until someone can prove me wrong I will remain in this paranoid state of mind. I am not losing sleep over it though. It is impossible to prove me wrong." Your ability to sleep, if you have firm conviction in this conspiracy theory, shows how strongly you actually believe in this. Maybe you don't have the intelligence to grasp how horrifying this is (since you don't have the intelligence to critically examine the situation or offer any counter to arguments to all the counter points I made to your arguments...which were all incoherent.) If the world was ruled by a banking elite you would be nothing but a pawn in someone else's game. Meaning everything from what you post on the internet to what house you live in in as controlled contrivance. If this idea doesn't even stir enough passion in you to lose some sleep over it - and the extent of your actions has been arguing on an internet forum - then do you really believe in it? Your lack of conviction says everything that needs to be said.

Now from a technical perspective it is impossible to prove your claims wrong because they're unsubstantiated; meaning there's nothing there to disprove. I asked you to provide sources. You provide a Thomas Jefferson quote then misinterpreted it because the government and banking institutions are not one, nor do the banking institutions control currency (ultimately what Jefferson describes is the Federal Reserve's job.) Do the financial institutions have too much economic influence? Absolutely - but that is capitalism for you.

Now before you even comment on the Federal Reserve you need to read the Federal Reserve act and understand how it operates. It isn't a privately owned law evading companies, it's a quasi-public system that is ultimately held accountable by the government and by extension the people (this is a democracy.) Just because Americans are too fat and lazy to examine what the Federal Reserve does and how it has been operating doesn't mean it's been hidden from view. We all knew there was a bubble in the housing market; Greenspan even stated he felt every American having a home was worth any slight economic problems in the future.

There has been no hidden plot to overthrow the economy. There has been a build up to this downturn since the days of Thatcher and Reagan and the policy of major world leaders since then have, for the most part, done nothing to prevent this crisis. You can see all the pieces in the policies of Prime Ministers, Parliaments, Presidents and Congress - not in the hidden agenda of some fictitious banking elites.

Now to once again get to your posting style. You didn't even try and argue any of the points I made nor did you provide any sources. I told you if you wanted to keep posting in here you would abide by basic rules of debate. I am being lenient in this and I'm not holding you to very high standards however I expect you to to at least be able to preform basic argument tasks that your average eleven year old could do.

When I asked you for a rebuttal I meant that you needed to counter my arguments which were counting all your original points. You didn't do this; in fact you ignored my entire post and started talking about a Thomas Jefferson quote. I asked for you to provide sources for your absurd claims. You didn't do this either. I'm not doing this to be condescending; I'm trying to help you. Right now you look like a rambling idiot and a liar (I pointed out this flat out lie you told and you ignored that as well. Though in your defense, though this only shows how critical your mind is, you based this false opinion off what the documentary espoused.) If you're not going to argue with credibility and coherency then you're not going to post in here. You have yet to offer any evidence that this banking elite exists, what their manifesto of sorts is, or explain how they've had global control. If you're not going to do that stop wasting my time, your time and every else in this section of the board's time.

#1 From reading your replies you are always condescending, so much to the point that most ppl wont be combative with you... I think you rely on this tactic very well with your constant attacks of Lets make this simple for you you have the intellect of a 11 year old ect... Your constant usage of unusually large words that are only masking your true self and when broken down rely on the old "shut up" tactic.. I agree oldie but a good one. Answering to you is like answering a brick wall... I must also make notice that you are very good at convincing people to follow in your footsteps... I've noticed your puppets... I have also noticed the ones that are afraid to post up mumbling out of there suppressed azzes.. I will agree you know your stuff but your a real $%^& about it. ... I say yes you say no and you have no bending point what so ever. As stated above brick wall

I still have freedom of speech...

My proof is form the same source you have your proof from... Just with a different outlook.
So I guess you contradict yourself willingly.

The Federal reserve is an it's a quasi-public system that bought us out. You cant disagree that we owe big...

Of course he did, why do we deserve anything(this is my point of view..) Just because we beat the construction workers due to our hard work and dreams we should be punished. How about all the houses that sit empty now.. Greenspan had it all figured out.


Up up up... the people dream... Down down down... Pockets get filled and its not yours.
By nobody, I would assume that you mean the people who are making trillions of dollars that have no reason to change there plan... After all would you?

If I'm an asshole at least I'm an asshole who knows how to argue. Your response (and I'm using this term loosely and generously) makes no sense.

Break it down... That is how it doesn't make sense...

Or beat around "the bush"... I mean "the Obama" I'm sorry about that

Because it's full of vague and fragmented statements with no coherency. I can't respond to anything in it because I have no clue what you're even trying to say. This is the sort of thoughtless-freshly-pulled-out-of-ass posts I have been talking about. They're disruptive, idiotic and irrelevant.

What cant you make any sense of???

I've already told you; your entire post.

Way to edit your post mid argument by the way... You know the greenspan one.. Bravo!! I will show you what i think... one sec

No what you're going to do is respond to the political nature of my argument in a more intelligent manner or I'm going to start marking your posts as spam. I've warned you several times now and you're still refusing to engage this forum with any maturity.

That's because you haven't watched the movie...

I understand I made the mistake of not summarizing it for you or anyone else...
This is something I agree I need to work on.

I just don't understand how that doesn't make sense. I haven't gone above your head.

#1 You basically say I should be afraid to use what is against me.

I state freedom of speech

#2 You say I have no proof to voice such a conspiracy...

We both used the media to base our opinions, thus contradicting yourself.

#3 You state the Fed res is a quasi-public system and voiced the obvious text book details.

I told you what they did...

#4 You state "Greenspan even stated he felt every American having a home was worth any slight economic problems in the future..

Now that you have edited this it makes no sense where before you said "deserved" Don't try to lie about that it will show weakness /understanding...



#5 You basically tell me that nobody has had enough time to fix this problem..With the economic highs and lows...

The survey says

That greedy palms wont let this repetitious cycle invade their standard of living..