Physical discipline against children .. okay or not?

MoonlitSunshine · 01-31-2011, 09:50 AM

Beating a child is wrong. Physical Discipline is however a completely different thing to beating.

I know that when I was younger, I did things that I knew were wrong, because I was too young to understand the concept of right and wrong, or good and bad, etc. on a level that actually made a sense of morality kick in. My parents would tell me not to do something, and I would do it, and I would do it again, because I didn't understand that there were greater reasons than my own impulses to be considered. And I got smacked. Not often at all, in fact very rarely did it go that far, but I think that there are situations where it is a necessary form of discipline. It's not a fail-proof method, it's not a first resort, it's something that it used to ingrain "NO." into a child's head when it becomes clear that they are unable or unwilling to listen to reason.

I think it is something that is often taken too far by bad parents - it is definitely a last resort, and not one to default to on every occasion, but if you think that everything can be solved with words, then you haven't met enough children. I fully expect that there will be at least one or two times in life when I will have to have "an encounter" with my children. Not because I think that there's nothing like a good beating, or that they will deserve it for not listening to me. They'll probably be far too intelligent for their own good, and fully capable of understanding logical reasoning, but the chances are that there will be things that they disobey - eating biscuits from a jar repeatedly when i tell them not to, not cleaning up a mess, giving out if I assign them chores... I will do my best to raise them in such a way that they understand reason, but I will not raise my children to accept my rule without question, and personally, I believe that is the only way you could possibly avoid hitting your children, and hell, you'd probably have to do it at least a few times in the process of creating that mindset.

As regards to the "I turned out okay" - I got smacked a few times, once right across the face, when I was a bit older (I can't remember what I said, but I definitely deserved it), and I would consider myself confident, happy, and in hindsight, understanding of the reasons why I was hit. Stuff like the soap in the mouth I am completely against, as that amounts to torture, being paddled activates an instinctive reflex to avoid pain without any long-term physical or mental damage, provided that it is not abused, and it is only done so much that the message gets through. Yes, you could argue that a particularly bad child would take a long time to get the point, in which case you might cultivate an impression that violence was the way to solve everything, but for a child to be that belligerent, there would have to be other factors in the child's upbringing causing such an attitude of disobedience.

Violence is not something that I would choose to eliminate entirely from my children. To do so would be very, very dangerous for them, because I know for a fact that the same could not be said for the parents of those children who will grow up to pick on those who do not ascribe to violence. Control is key, not elimination - my children will be taught that violence should never be used to get one's way, but only as a final, last-resort tool to defend one's way, or that of another.

In Essence: I think there are very few situations in which physical disciplining should be used, and I think that it is a last resort after a child has shown that they have no compulsion to listen to reason, but that I is necessary to allow a level of physical discipline to parents (a short to medium smack at most should get the message across given proper parenting in other areas), as there are some situations where it is the only thing that will actually get children to stop doing something that they do not yet understand the reasons against.

s_k · 01-31-2011, 09:52 AM

Allright, to be absolutely complete; Any type of physical discipline is wrong to me.
It's just a sign of parents not being able to explain to their kids what they mean.
It's possible to talk with a three year old. You just have to find a way.

ThePhanastasio · 01-31-2011, 01:27 PM

I was my parents' first child, so I suppose that makes me the "practice kid". I was also one of those kids that would consistently do the same things over and over again, despite how many times my parents told me "No". It was partly because the punishment for breaking the rules was never anything I saw as being especially inconvenient.

For example: I was super-pumped that I was 3 years old and able to write words, and my parents would reward me for this. I thought that it would be cool to write them on the wall, accompanied by illustrations to show my comprehension of the words I was writing. My parents weren't impressed. The punishment was generally, "Okay, sit in time out for half an hour and think about what you've done!" or, "Okay, now you don't get to have dessert / have a story read to you tonight." Granted, I didn't like any of these punishments, but I really decided that they weren't all that bad.

When I was about four, I got spanked, but VERY rarely. It was only when I'd do something particularly horrible, such as thinking it was a good idea to ride my bike in the street, jump out of trees, or something that was seriously dangerous. That transferred over into, "If I do this, is this going to get me spanked? 'Cause I really don't like getting spanked..." so I legitimately listened to my parents a lot more. I stopped getting spanked when I was nine or ten, but it really did cause me to think a lot more about possible repercussions to everything I did. Additionally, I was never spanked hard. It didn't even really hurt, and they never used a belt or anything like that. It was always their hand, and always just a little slap, then, "Go think about what you've done..." usually after they explained why what I did was wrong.

I doubt that I would ever spank my children, and my sisters didn't ever get spanked, but I understand also that I was a particularly difficult child.

s_k · 01-31-2011, 01:35 PM

I got spanked once, after I almost killed my father

.
We still don't know why I did that, but I actually threw a (heavy!) toy car to his head.
He said I was standing up, all of a sudden, looking very angry and pointing the car directly at him. He said 'don't you dare throwing that towards me'. But I did. And hit him right between the eyes. Things could've ended badly as he has glasses on. I hit the bridge between the glasses, which was completely bent. I can't remember any of this by the way. The car ended up in the pond

.

Ah well, this probably was self defence rather than physical discipline.

djchameleon · 01-31-2011, 01:57 PM

I agree with alot of what moonlit said. I was beat pretty badly by my parents but i'm not going to pass that on to my kids. It will be between light-medium spanking.

My mother and Grandmother were horrible. I would get beat with belts, high heels, broomsticks, have my head slammed into walls. My mother even beat me until I was about 17 or so. I wasn't even a bad kid. If she felt like I disrespected her though like talked back then I would get hit. That was so stupid. The only way I got her to stop was I had to kick my own ass and slam my own head against the wall to show her how ineffective it is at my age.

My grandmother was so skilled at beating us that she would throw a high heel show and while sitting on her bed and be able to ricochet it off the walls and still hit me. The first time that happened. I was said wtf out loud. I thought it was a fluke and she sent another one that hit me again. This time I said in just in my head. "This is some bull****"

Yeah I'd get beat with belts, switches, pots, pans, whatever was available really. One time my grandmother even just used her body and sat on one of my uncles. I don't even remember what he did. but she was squishing the hell out of him.

s_k · 01-31-2011, 02:00 PM

Light-medium spanking. Man... The way you think about this scares me.
So, did your mother and grandmother got beaten?

Dude, in all seriousness, I think you're a brilliant guy. I really do.
And I know you want the best for everyone. But trust me on this, think twice about getting kids, because the way you will treat them eventually won't be much of a choice.
You're ****ed up for life when it comes to this. And I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's in no way your fault.
But this is just the way things go. Exceptions are very, very, VERY rare.

djchameleon · 01-31-2011, 02:08 PM

just because I was beaten doesn't mean I'm going to do it to my kids. Spanking isn't that big of a deal and it's not like I will only be spanking them. I will definitely talk to them about what they did and why it was wrong so I don't have to spank them as much.

s_k · 01-31-2011, 02:13 PM

I think spanking is a very big deal.
But that's not what I wanted to say.
In one of my first postings I explained that kids who get physically abused
(what you're talking about isn't beating, that's just abuse, it's awful and I'm really very sorry to hear what happened to you) usually do the same to their children and so on. It's not something I make up, it's the way these things work.
The fact that you really don't want to do it like that, often causes you to make the same awful mistakes. You might want to google a bit on that, it's really the (inconvenient) truth.
Exceptions are rare. If you are indeed an exception, you definitely can tell everyone you're making the world a better place.

Edit:
here is that posting
I guess you already read it

djchameleon · 01-31-2011, 02:23 PM

I think there are more exceptions than you think. I don't believe they are as rare as you are saying.

s_k · 01-31-2011, 02:27 PM

I'm sorry man

.
I hope you're right. But I'm afraid not.

View Poll Results: Physical punishment aganist children. Acceptable or Unacceptable?
Acceptable	50	56.82%
Unacceptable	38	43.18%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

01-31-2011, 09:50 AM	#381 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	Beating a child is wrong. Physical Discipline is however a completely different thing to beating. I know that when I was younger, I did things that I knew were wrong, because I was too young to understand the concept of right and wrong, or good and bad, etc. on a level that actually made a sense of morality kick in. My parents would tell me not to do something, and I would do it, and I would do it again, because I didn't understand that there were greater reasons than my own impulses to be considered. And I got smacked. Not often at all, in fact very rarely did it go that far, but I think that there are situations where it is a necessary form of discipline. It's not a fail-proof method, it's not a first resort, it's something that it used to ingrain "NO." into a child's head when it becomes clear that they are unable or unwilling to listen to reason. I think it is something that is often taken too far by bad parents - it is definitely a last resort, and not one to default to on every occasion, but if you think that everything can be solved with words, then you haven't met enough children. I fully expect that there will be at least one or two times in life when I will have to have "an encounter" with my children. Not because I think that there's nothing like a good beating, or that they will deserve it for not listening to me. They'll probably be far too intelligent for their own good, and fully capable of understanding logical reasoning, but the chances are that there will be things that they disobey - eating biscuits from a jar repeatedly when i tell them not to, not cleaning up a mess, giving out if I assign them chores... I will do my best to raise them in such a way that they understand reason, but I will not raise my children to accept my rule without question, and personally, I believe that is the only way you could possibly avoid hitting your children, and hell, you'd probably have to do it at least a few times in the process of creating that mindset. As regards to the "I turned out okay" - I got smacked a few times, once right across the face, when I was a bit older (I can't remember what I said, but I definitely deserved it), and I would consider myself confident, happy, and in hindsight, understanding of the reasons why I was hit. Stuff like the soap in the mouth I am completely against, as that amounts to torture, being paddled activates an instinctive reflex to avoid pain without any long-term physical or mental damage, provided that it is not abused, and it is only done so much that the message gets through. Yes, you could argue that a particularly bad child would take a long time to get the point, in which case you might cultivate an impression that violence was the way to solve everything, but for a child to be that belligerent, there would have to be other factors in the child's upbringing causing such an attitude of disobedience. Violence is not something that I would choose to eliminate entirely from my children. To do so would be very, very dangerous for them, because I know for a fact that the same could not be said for the parents of those children who will grow up to pick on those who do not ascribe to violence. Control is key, not elimination - my children will be taught that violence should never be used to get one's way, but only as a final, last-resort tool to defend one's way, or that of another. In Essence: I think there are very few situations in which physical disciplining should be used, and I think that it is a last resort after a child has shown that they have no compulsion to listen to reason, but that I is necessary to allow a level of physical discipline to parents (a short to medium smack at most should get the message across given proper parenting in other areas), as there are some situations where it is the only thing that will actually get children to stop doing something that they do not yet understand the reasons against. __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

01-31-2011, 09:52 AM	#382 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	Allright, to be absolutely complete; Any type of physical discipline is wrong to me. It's just a sign of parents not being able to explain to their kids what they mean. It's possible to talk with a three year old. You just have to find a way. __________________ Click here to see my collection

01-31-2011, 01:27 PM	#383 (permalink)
ThePhanastasio Killed Laura Palmer Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Ashland, KY Posts: 1,679	I was my parents' first child, so I suppose that makes me the "practice kid". I was also one of those kids that would consistently do the same things over and over again, despite how many times my parents told me "No". It was partly because the punishment for breaking the rules was never anything I saw as being especially inconvenient. For example: I was super-pumped that I was 3 years old and able to write words, and my parents would reward me for this. I thought that it would be cool to write them on the wall, accompanied by illustrations to show my comprehension of the words I was writing. My parents weren't impressed. The punishment was generally, "Okay, sit in time out for half an hour and think about what you've done!" or, "Okay, now you don't get to have dessert / have a story read to you tonight." Granted, I didn't like any of these punishments, but I really decided that they weren't all that bad. When I was about four, I got spanked, but VERY rarely. It was only when I'd do something particularly horrible, such as thinking it was a good idea to ride my bike in the street, jump out of trees, or something that was seriously dangerous. That transferred over into, "If I do this, is this going to get me spanked? 'Cause I really don't like getting spanked..." so I legitimately listened to my parents a lot more. I stopped getting spanked when I was nine or ten, but it really did cause me to think a lot more about possible repercussions to everything I did. Additionally, I was never spanked hard. It didn't even really hurt, and they never used a belt or anything like that. It was always their hand, and always just a little slap, then, "Go think about what you've done..." usually after they explained why what I did was wrong. I doubt that I would ever spank my children, and my sisters didn't ever get spanked, but I understand also that I was a particularly difficult child. __________________ Phish: Studio Discography Reviewed 100 Albums I Heartily Recommend My last.fm It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken Perhaps they're better left unsung

01-31-2011, 01:35 PM	#384 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	I got spanked once, after I almost killed my father . We still don't know why I did that, but I actually threw a (heavy!) toy car to his head. He said I was standing up, all of a sudden, looking very angry and pointing the car directly at him. He said 'don't you dare throwing that towards me'. But I did. And hit him right between the eyes. Things could've ended badly as he has glasses on. I hit the bridge between the glasses, which was completely bent. I can't remember any of this by the way. The car ended up in the pond . Ah well, this probably was self defence rather than physical discipline. __________________ Click here to see my collection

01-31-2011, 02:00 PM	#386 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	Light-medium spanking. Man... The way you think about this scares me. So, did your mother and grandmother got beaten? Dude, in all seriousness, I think you're a brilliant guy. I really do. And I know you want the best for everyone. But trust me on this, think twice about getting kids, because the way you will treat them eventually won't be much of a choice. You're ****ed up for life when it comes to this. And I'm not trying to be disrespectful. It's in no way your fault. But this is just the way things go. Exceptions are very, very, VERY rare. __________________ Click here to see my collection

01-31-2011, 02:13 PM	#388 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	I think spanking is a very big deal. But that's not what I wanted to say. In one of my first postings I explained that kids who get physically abused (what you're talking about isn't beating, that's just abuse, it's awful and I'm really very sorry to hear what happened to you) usually do the same to their children and so on. It's not something I make up, it's the way these things work. The fact that you really don't want to do it like that, often causes you to make the same awful mistakes. You might want to google a bit on that, it's really the (inconvenient) truth. Exceptions are rare. If you are indeed an exception, you definitely can tell everyone you're making the world a better place. Edit: here is that posting I guess you already read it __________________ Click here to see my collection

01-31-2011, 02:27 PM	#390 (permalink)
s_k Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,206	I'm sorry man . I hope you're right. But I'm afraid not. __________________ Click here to see my collection