mr. goth glam

I still think kids should be smacked once in a while.

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anticipation

the entire world runs on the threat of violence, why shouldn't children learn that at a young age?

Astronomer

Well that's why the world apparently runs on the threat of violence because children are taught about it at a young age and it becomes normal for them. Studies have shown that children who are disciplined physically are more likely to be physically abusive later in life.

Plus anyway, where I come the world doesn't run on any threats of violence at all.

It's a known fact in the theories of education that hitting children will simply lead them to be more aggressive and noncompliant - which are often the reasons for the parents hitting them in the first place.

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anticipation

they don't have police in austrailia?

those "studies" show that children who are physically and emotionally abused over long periods of time, when combined with other factors, are more likely to be abusive later in life. i doubt you'll find many reports saying that if you spank a child once in a while that they'll turn out like jeffery dahmer.

it's also a known psychological fact that negative reinforcement is proven to be just effective in correcting/establishing behaviors as positive reinforcement.

Astronomer

We do have police in Australia. They are not violent.

Also, it is unlikely that parents who physically discipline their children will do it "once in a while." Usually parents who resort to physical discipline do it regularly.

And thirdly, I was lead to believe in my university degree studying to be a teacher that most studies actually prove that negative reinforcement is nowhere near as effective as positive reinforcement, for a whole variety of reasons. And working in the classroom I have seen it myself, right in front of my eyes.

Anyway, I guess it just comes down to what you believe in. I don't think physical abuse is an effective form of discipline, that's what I've been taught and what I've chosen to believe based on my own experiences with children. If parents want to bring their children up in that kind of environment then it's their choice, but personally I will never resort to physically disciplining any of the kids I come into contact with.

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anticipation

i suppose that's where we differ. i was lead to believe that punishment, and not negative reinforcement, was a less-effective form of conditioning. whether it be classical or operant, case studies i've seen have come to the conclusion that negative and positive reinforcements are interchangeable, given that the experiments were slightly altered.

also, i find that generalizing those who choose to physically discipline their children as people who resort to spanking et al. immediately is dangerous. parents do have options before physical discipline, and many do try alternative routes in addition to physical discipline. i grew up with physical discipline, as did nearly everyone i knew in my neighborhood. i guess it's just the difference of environments.

Classof75

Children should learn that good communication is better than violence.
Violence makes any problem worse. The world runs on opportunity and
understanding. Those who are threatened by violence need to change things.

Double X

Physical discipline teaches kids to accept rules when something is more powerful than you, to not think for themselves. It promotes the idea that violence can be used to prove you are right and you can use it to control other people. If a child sees a parent using violence for anything, they will be more apt to do it as well.

Lecturing them (which can be equally as painful) about why certain things are wrong is a much better option, as it encourages them to think logically about their actions.

Astronomer

I agree.

& not so much lecturing them, but more so getting them to reflect upon their actions and how they affect others/ themselves. Sounds complex but it is indeed something than can be taught to children.

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Arya Stark

Taking things away always works in some sense.

Being physically disciplined always worked better for me.

I never listen to my parents when they talk. They say the same things everytime.

Edit: I'm not saying it's better. I'm just saying when I was little, I learned my lesson and never did whatever I was being disciplined for.

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MB Journal.
Azucar y Especia. My blog.