75 Year Old Saudi Woman Sentenced To Lashes... (house, American, Religious)

barbarella · 03-13-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

Have you even read the Qu'ran? Or just...read something on the sexism in it? It teaches that woman are inferior, should subvert themselves to the will of man, deserve to be beaten for being "lewd," etc. I would agree though, sexist attitudes aren't encourage in the Qu'ran; they're openly stated.

"Men have a status above women." - 2:228

"As for those women whom you fear disobedience, admonish them, forsake them in bed, and beat them." - 4:34

"O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving". - 4:43

"Mothers shall suck their children for two whole years if the father wishes the sucking to be complete."- 2:233

"Lo! it is those who disbelieve in the Hereafter who name the angels with the names of females." - 53:27

"As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify then confine them to the houses until death take them" - 4:15

"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment." - 24:31

"Women are your fields: go, then into your fields whence you please." - 2:223

I have a feeling that what Sleepy Jack is saying can be seen whenever I venture outside. There are so many women who, not too long ago would have been comfortable to be seen outdoors without almost completely covering their faces. However, it's almost as if these women, in trying to uphold their beliefs by covering their faces, are actually upholding their husbands' and fathers' beliefs instead and in doing so lose their identities altogether, becoming "invisible". A sort of subtle way for the males to be seen as having the more authority, by the manipulation of how the female is supposed to react.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-13-2009, 09:09 AM

Blah blah blah... Its how they operate. There is room for question as people have always questioned the system. Our own system is questioned every single day but does it change? Not that much.

So basically you can do all the pondering you want, but it wont change there culture. Also I think that the woman in question was aware of the repercussions of her actions. Some cultures are eye for an eye some cultures sew up there females until a certain age, some believe in bigamy, ect. Either way these beliefs while seeming over the top to you and I are common and well know practice in other cultures/religions and the people are aware of the outcome.

We are that way to a certain extent as well. Of course the american Government/system is more civil/caring than this. However we are also aware of the repercussions of our actions as well.

sleepy jack · 03-16-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

Just an example:

Look at the Gospels and tell me where Jesus advocated inequality between women and men. Christians follow Christ, I would think that was common sense.

I was talking about the Bible (hence why I specifically stated the Bible, which includes the old testament) as a whole; not just the teachings of Jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonace

I must apologize. Coming from a Christian that sounded pretty ignorant. I hold by the Bible thing though (as I have read it and studied not only the poetic aspects but also the chronology and the laws). I've just read some pretty ignorant posts about the bible, guess replying with an equally ignorant statement doesn't help.

Explain Corinthians then. Here's some quotations from it.

"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man."
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man."
"Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. "
- 11:7-9

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
"And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
- 14:34 - 35

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."
- 3:18

And that's just one book! The Bible is anti-feminism and anti-gender equality. It teaches that woman are to be silent slaves to their husbands for no logical reason. In fact the only justification given is that Adam was created first...which isn't a rational reason for one gender being superior.

barbarella · 03-17-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

I was talking about the Bible (hence why I specifically stated the Bible, which includes the old testament) as a whole; not just the teachings of Jesus.

Explain Corinthians then. Here's some quotations from it.

"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man."
"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man."
"Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. "
- 11:7-9

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
"And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
- 14:34 - 35

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."
- 3:18

And that's just one book! The Bible is anti-feminism and anti-gender equality. It teaches that woman are to be silent slaves to their husbands for no logical reason. In fact the only justification given is that Adam was created first...which isn't a rational reason for one gender being superior.

It's a shame that there aren't a few more guys with your opinion around! That is, of course, assuming that you are in agreement with the points you are making,rather than them just being observations!

Yukon Cornelius · 03-17-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbarella

It's a shame that there aren't a few more guys with your opinion around! That is, of course, assuming that you are in agreement with the points you are making,rather than them just being observations!

Lets sum this up, your opinion only counts here because, 3rd world countries are not on music banter. Religion based, absolutely, just like us. You can't turn your head without commiting a sin. There is nothing to figure out here its the way they work which makes your opinions crap. Also for you to argue on this subject questions religion. So you better start praying now.

Or you can admit that when the america was at the same stage as many of these 3rd world countries we were just as barbaric, if not more. Our bible was also in place at the time of these activities. Was it religion based then? No it really was not, it was eye for an eye, blood thirsty, greedy and scandelous ppl with nothing better to do than fight for land and kill for money. I would assume that over time that it will get better for these ppl.

Lets just say maybe if they were a little more modernized this might not be happening, rather than bleed all over the pages of the Quran.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 03-17-2009, 12:57 PM

Okay let me clear some stuff up as someone who has actually read the Bible in it's entirety. Women are not told to be "silent slaves" to their husbands. Rather, the husband is supposed to be head of the family. That doesn't mean he makes all of the desicions, but that means he has the responsibility to care for the family. The woman is thus "in subjection" to the husband as the husband is "in subjection" to the Christ, as Christ is in subjection to God.

Paul wrote to the Christian congregation in Corinth: “As in all the congregations of the holy ones, let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak.” (1 Corinthians 14:33, 34) In order for us to understand this correctly, it is helpful to consider the context of Paul’s counsel.

In 1 Corinthians chapter 14, Paul discussed matters relating to meetings of the Christian congregation. He described what should be discussed at such meetings and recommended how they should be conducted. (1 Corinthians 14:1-6, 26-34) Further, he stressed the objective of Christian meetings—“that the congregation may receive upbuilding.”—1 Corinthians 14:4, 5, 12, 26.

Paul’s instruction to “keep silent” appears three times in 1 Corinthians chapter 14. Each time, it is addressed to a different group in the congregation, but in all instances, it is given for the same reason—that “all things take place decently and by arrangement.”—1 Corinthians 14:40.

Paul was giving instruction on how the congregation should do things, that the men of the congregation should handle matters. Women are not told that they shouldn't speak in the churches, thats taking it out of context.

Inuzuka Skysword · 03-17-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

I was talking about the Bible (hence why I specifically stated the Bible, which includes the old testament) as a whole; not just the teachings of Jesus.

So I am guessing that you aren't so much attacking Christianity as you are attacking fundamentalism?

BoopieJones · 03-17-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Its not like this old woman didn't know the consequences of her actions.

Wow...she's 75 and she is alone, she asked someone who was like a son to her - someone she breast fed - to get her bread. Do these actions merit the ****ing consequence of lashes and prison?

You all are insensitive pricks. This is inhumane and violates human rights.

****.

barbarella · 03-19-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Lets sum this up, your opinion only counts here because, 3rd world countries are not on music banter. Religion based, absolutely, just like us. You can't turn your head without commiting a sin. There is nothing to figure out here its the way they work which makes your opinions crap. Also for you to argue on this subject questions religion. So you better start praying now.

Or you can admit that when the america was at the same stage as many of these 3rd world countries we were just as barbaric, if not more. Our bible was also in place at the time of these activities. Was it religion based then? No it really was not, it was eye for an eye, blood thirsty, greedy and scandelous ppl with nothing better to do than fight for land and kill for money. I would assume that over time that it will get better for these ppl.

Lets just say maybe if they were a little more modernized this might not be happening, rather than bleed all over the pages of the Quran.

This is why I made my comment, which is based on my own morals and principals.
I do not condone violence against either male or female. As a parent of two small children, maybe it gives me a different perspective as I could not put myself in a position where I had to make judgement on, or take part in such actions.
I believe in myself as an equal.
There are plenty of instances where we could learn so much from what you say are 3rd world countries, and I have visited several of these, so I know this first-hand.
And I believe in tolerance, and that one always has to look at mitigating circumstances, because no two incidents are rarely, if ever, identical.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-20-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoopieJones

Wow...she's 75 and she is alone, she asked someone who was like a son to her - someone she breast fed - to get her bread. Do these actions merit the ****ing consequence of lashes and prison?

You all are insensitive pricks. This is inhumane and violates human rights.

****.

We as Americans have human rights .... So feel blessed.

03-13-2009, 09:09 AM	#42 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Blah blah blah... Its how they operate. There is room for question as people have always questioned the system. Our own system is questioned every single day but does it change? Not that much. So basically you can do all the pondering you want, but it wont change there culture. Also I think that the woman in question was aware of the repercussions of her actions. Some cultures are eye for an eye some cultures sew up there females until a certain age, some believe in bigamy, ect. Either way these beliefs while seeming over the top to you and I are common and well know practice in other cultures/religions and the people are aware of the outcome. We are that way to a certain extent as well. Of course the american Government/system is more civil/caring than this. However we are also aware of the repercussions of our actions as well. __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

03-17-2009, 12:57 PM	#46 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	Okay let me clear some stuff up as someone who has actually read the Bible in it's entirety. Women are not told to be "silent slaves" to their husbands. Rather, the husband is supposed to be head of the family. That doesn't mean he makes all of the desicions, but that means he has the responsibility to care for the family. The woman is thus "in subjection" to the husband as the husband is "in subjection" to the Christ, as Christ is in subjection to God. Paul wrote to the Christian congregation in Corinth: “As in all the congregations of the holy ones, let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak.” (1 Corinthians 14:33, 34) In order for us to understand this correctly, it is helpful to consider the context of Paul’s counsel. In 1 Corinthians chapter 14, Paul discussed matters relating to meetings of the Christian congregation. He described what should be discussed at such meetings and recommended how they should be conducted. (1 Corinthians 14:1-6, 26-34) Further, he stressed the objective of Christian meetings—“that the congregation may receive upbuilding.”—1 Corinthians 14:4, 5, 12, 26. Paul’s instruction to “keep silent” appears three times in 1 Corinthians chapter 14. Each time, it is addressed to a different group in the congregation, but in all instances, it is given for the same reason—that “all things take place decently and by arrangement.”—1 Corinthians 14:40. Paul was giving instruction on how the congregation should do things, that the men of the congregation should handle matters. Women are not told that they shouldn't speak in the churches, thats taking it out of context.