Quote:
Originally Posted by garbanzo
we wouldn't get anywhere? i thought you were an atheist, yet you believe we have a destination? a telos? you feel we should progress - towards what?
|
By not getting anywhere, I mean we'd all be dead and not have gotten to this point in humanity. I'm not talking about anything religious when I use words like progress, I merely talking about the ongoing survival of the human race. Something, as a human, I have interest in.
Quote:
|
anyway you say i'm approaching society with that kind of philosophy, when in fact i'm saying that society has nothing to do with ethics on the bottom-most level. nor is it a philosophy - it's just the way things are.
|
I'd define society as a group with a common bond but for that bond to exist there has to be some level of morality and respect amongst the group. I don't really understand how you can deny morality - or the lack of - being at the basis of every society.
Quote:
|
the thing that distinguishes humans from animals is society - and it is on the social level that ethics truly operate. that's where cooperation and empathy and all that comes in.
|
Animals are capable of living in harmony together though and operating with a base level of what, some would consider, "ethics." You can see it when a mother cares for her young. The denial of a basic level of ethics in both humans and animals is completely absurd. If we didn't have any moral compass whatsoever and it was all constructed by society why would we feel obligated to follow them? Because it's in our best interests? How do we know what is and isn't in our best interests?
Quote:
|
but it is not part of our biology. on a pre-cultural, biological level, we are no different than animals, and we are ultimately selfish.
|
The fact were selfish points towards a desire to thrive as a individual but I think, more altruistically, everyone generally wants to see their species or family, pack, etc. thrive.
Quote:
|
we have no innate moral compas. objective moral standards do not exist. morality is a social construct. how can i be any more explicit?
|
You're twisting this into something it isn't. I'm not talking about some objective moral standard like some rabid Ayn Rand fan. If you consider a basic need in our species to coexist and thrive an objective moral standard then okay - I guess it could be seen as that - but I just consider it the basis for a society to exist. I don't think any innate moral compass can explain the more complex issues that face our society today, that's where logic and critical thinking come in.
PS Happy Birthday (:
Linear Mode
