The Official Barack Obama Thread (country, quote, band, 2004)

[sleepy jack]

I don't really think Nader runs to win; he's frequently talked about how it was the little parties that pushed key issues. I think he runs to scare the Democrats into listening to his ideas which almost worked in 2004.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I appreciate all the thought out participation in this thread.

[sleepy jack]

Stop making useless posts I'm just going to delete them. This is a thread for actual discussion.

[TheBig3]

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

I don't really think Nader runs to win; he's frequently talked about how it was the little parties that pushed key issues. I think he runs to scare the Democrats into listening to his ideas which almost worked in 2004.

I'll give you the point that its likely his intention, but lets talk about how realisitc that is...

In addition, by the way, to the point that people hide behind him during election season in lieu of defending a candidate.

...given that he's a terrible politician. As I recall he told voters that Obama was a vote to relieve white guilt.

I saw his documentry, I have amazing respect for the man. But a claimed vote in his direction is political misdirection to avoid actual fault being lobbed at someone for the direction of the country.

A similar point was made by Chris Matthews during the McCain campaign in that, now that the president (bush), whom you've all supported for 6.5 years has low approval ratings, you're taking off the uniform and balming someone else. As least McCain is playing defense saying "the fundamentals of the economy are strong" and not saying it was some other party whos to blame."

The same is true here. By allying yourself with a third party you never take blame and you never have to work to improve a party because you never get in to office to **** things up. And while there are occasional third party candidates who are valid, you get the impression that were these folks in California during the Davis administration, they'd have voted for Gary Coleman.

[sleepy jack]

Ralph Nader might be a terrible politician but it's because he's honest. I mean if you really look at what he says about government, corporations, and the environment he isn't wrong. I mean look, Edwards copped his message and softened it up a bit and the Democrats loved him (until he cheated on his wife) politics is all about image because people in general are stupid.

The only thing he said, in regards to Obama's race, was that comment about whether he would be an Uncle Sam for the people or Uncle Tom to the corporations. I understood his point even if he was being politically incorrect.

I don't know what you're going on about with the me loving Bush comment. I've never supported the Iraq war (even though I was young when we invaded and even my middle school mind didn't really understand. Afghanistan I got I didn't understand how Iraq came into the figure but anyway) and I've never liked Bush.

As for the third party thing...I don't deny that alot of people cling to independents to look make it look like they're more aware and I also don't deny alot of third-party supporters are complete idiots (for instance the ones who use the Nader argument 'both parties are the same!' which isn't true in the slightest. Yes, to a socialist or fascist they may appear to be the same but were talking completely different ideologies there) but the same could be said for most major party voters. I have several friends who are liberal and two who are conservative and neither of them (except one liberal friend) can argue anything other than domestic and social issues like gay marriage and abortion and even then they just resort to talking points.

[phantom133pz]

Ron Paul is a libertarian. He was running for the Republican nomination because he knows a third party candidate won't be elected to office. As for Obama, I don't really like what he's doing so far (I hate the bailouts) but I'm willing to wait a bit and give him a chance. I personally doubt that he'll do too much.
Actually, the biggest thing that bothers me about the election of Obama has nothing to do with his political views. It's the fact that all these super anti-racist people voted for him because he's black. (Please, don't stop reading this now thinking I'm a huge racist) Unless I'm mistaken, isn't the whole point of this that we should be ignoring skin color? I understand that people are excited about it now, I mean it is history, but please everyone stop even looking at someone and noticing their skin color. That's what not being racist is about.

[sleepy jack]

Ron Paul ran for President as a Libertarian once and that's where his affiliation with the party stopped. He's been a Republican congressman ever since he's been in congress.

As for people only voting for Obama because he was black that's ridiculous and there's no support for that claim whatsoever. Obama ran a brilliant campaign with even more brilliant rhetoric. If he was white he would have won. Hell any credible Democrat would have won this election. They got more seats in both houses as well. It had quite a bit to do with actual politics.

[phantom133pz]

I'm aware. I just know quite a few (uninformed) people that voted for him solely because he is black rather than learning the issues. My bad, I guess I sounded like a dumbass.

[sleepy jack]

That's understandable given your region. Not to sound like I hate Virginia but from what I saw on the news that area seemed to have a lot of racially charged voters going both ways. I remember one fat redneck lady saying that Obama was Sadam Hussein.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

That's understandable given your region. Not to sound like I hate Virginia but from what I saw on the news that area seemed to have a lot of racially charged voters going both ways. I remember one fat redneck lady saying that Obama was Sadam Hussein.

Thats just ignorance...