The Official Barack Obama Thread (American, Russian, quote, 1989)

Yukon Cornelius · 03-04-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

Once again, prove your argument. Come on, New York Times, Washington Post, Rush Limbaugh; give me something.

Between The Lines: Excise unhealthy union greed with no auto bailout

sleepy jack · 03-04-2009, 03:09 PM

Ignoring the obvious partisanship in the article the problem with this article is two things. This isn't union workers fault. If an industry is paying extravagant amounts of money to union workers you do what every industry does...lay people off and cut benefits. This points more towards poor leadership than union problems. Anyway he's still drawing the wrong conclusions and ignoring key evidence. He even contradicts himself by stating that the auto industry had to up the price of cars to afford the union workers demands...if that were the case they wouldn't be in trouble because it was balanced out. Unless of course people stop buying the cars in which case the logical thing to do would be to...cut benefits and drop the price of cars or give up some of their own paycheck or maybe sell their private jets. This is all hypothetical of course, the point I'm making is if that were true it would still be the fault of bad leadership.

The reality is people didn't stop purchasing cars from the big three because they were too expensive. They did it because the cars were gas guzzlers and nobody wanted them. The auto industry admitted this when they appeared before Congress asking for a bail out. People want fuel efficient cars, they want smart cars, they want hybrids, and electric cars. They don't want gas guzzling SUVs and Diesel trucks, people can't afford them anymore. Only this one professor, who clearly has an agenda, is blaming it on Union workers and ignoring the basic laws of Supply and Demand - much like the auto industry itself has.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-04-2009, 03:28 PM

Thats bs... The most economical car you can buy is american made... And its electric and its sold out.

The bottom line is in reading a little more is that im not wrong im only half way right. Its everywhere in the company. Yes private jets to go to meetings concearning money problems so on and so fourth. Seems to me that nobody wanted a pay cut and everyone wanted a fatter wallet from the top to the bottom.

The Moral of this story is Greed, I mean honestly these ppl were paid to sit at home. And i mean PAID. 90-95 % of there normal pay.

Im not mad at you I just know the next f-ing time i see ppl that are making more than me stand out side whining and complaining about low pay I will tell you that i told you so. Just seems like we should feel bad that they dont get 200k a year for manual labor. What the hell do they do thats worse than anything else? Thats why i dont like strikes every time i see it i see greed.

It got so bad we had the MLB going on strike if you remember I mean thats greed to the T.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-04-2009, 05:20 PM

I guess you understand where am coming from now

sleepy jack · 03-04-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

tbh you'd be a fool to claim that it was entirely bad leadership and you'd be a fool to claim that it was entirely union workers driving prices up. this argument is a ****ing waste of time. srsly.

The problem with that argument is the latter is bad leadership. If you're driving your prices up thousands of dollars to pay for frivolous benefits you clearly shouldn't be running a company. It wouldn't be a problem if people were buying the cars in the first place anyway...which goes back to the entire reason the failed. Nobody wants to buy a shitty product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Thats bs... The most economical car you can buy is american made... And its electric and its sold out.

The most economical car? Lol, and the electric car isn't on the market anymore. The auto industry made sure of that. It isn't bullshit that the auto industry has been making shitty cars anyway. If it weren't true then people wouldn't have stopped buying cars from the big three and there would be no problem with them or need to bail them out. You're not "half right" you're still dead wrong. The cars haven't been selling and that's the bottom line.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-05-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

The most economical car? Lol, and the electric car isn't on the market anymore. The auto industry made sure of that.

Tesla Motors

Really? Whats this??

joyboyo53 · 03-05-2009, 09:01 AM

god damnit. i just typed an entire page about you guys bitching about the auto industry and ****ing brower crashed. its bad enough i waste time ****ing around on message board, losing 20 minutes of typing and thought is aggrivating as hell.

in short, the auto industry has been brought to its knees by a multitude of reason, not one single explanation as you guys wanna believe.

bad managment - money pissed away on a overly diversified product that has been failing for over a decade. they sell 30 different packages and 30 differnt models. consumers are confused and its a waste of r/d money. why not create a small lineup of quality cars that have easily replacable parts and develop a whole **** ton of after market products to sell at hiked up prices (think scion, only way better). those who want a unique car will get it, those who want a cheaper more reliable car will get it.

union workers - you can pretend these guys are just asking for fair compensation, but they are compensated FAR beyond anyone else in the labor market (approx $75/hr with benefits). if these guys were worth their weight in gold they should get another job... o wait they cant, they arent qualified for anything else. its nobody elses fault they didnt pursue more lucrative careers. a job is a privledge not a right.

market shift - you cant completly blame the big 3 for an overnight shift to more eco friendly fuel efficient cars. nobody was bitching as they bought up all the hummers, suvs, and other gas guzzles for the past 20 years. gas prices sky rocketted, and they are suppose to be able to release an entire new lineup of products within 6 months? get real, the huge shift in consumer demand is what had the largest effect on these companies.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-05-2009, 11:15 AM

I agree with everything but the market shift part, thats crap:

The big three do make more than gas guzzling giants. And the Foreign
market makes more than just fuel efficient cars.

Tundra
Tacoma
Titan
350z
fj cruiser ect

Chevy aveo
dodge neon
Dodge Caliber
ect.

People have just been brainwashed into thinking that these cars are so much better which is crap. Hondas were here in the 70's and how many 1970 whatever hondas do you see? However there are still old 70's clunkers running around. Either way if its a gas friendly car your looking for everyone has an option for you. Dont forget it.

Yukon Cornelius · 03-05-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

union workers - you can pretend these guys are just asking for fair compensation, but they are compensated FAR beyond anyone else in the labor market (approx $75/hr with benefits). if these guys were worth their weight in gold they should get another job... o wait they cant, they arent qualified for anything else. its nobody elses fault they didnt pursue more lucrative careers. a job is

Thats rediculious but some think its only fair. Fair so how about mailmen and police and teachers... Like i said i dont mind unions I mind greedy union workers and CEO's. I would like to split there saliries in half and give some to our teachers or police... Depending obviously on the state Some cops that have to potential to say your life only make 25,000 to start and might cap out at 55,000-60,000. I hate that So lets say its really like 45 dollars an hour take home since bennys are included...

45x8=360 dollars a day... Probably more like 52 an hour.
2520 a week
10,080 a month you do the taxes
120,960 a year gross. you do the taxes
lets not forget overtime ladies and gentalmen

Thats to bolt on a bumper... Whats to bitch about???

joyboyo53 · 03-05-2009, 04:03 PM

both cops and teachers have unions... btw most of cops never use their guns or save anyones life. im not saying all cops suck, but your crazy if you have some idealisitic view of them. most of them are donut chomping highschool dropouts on a power trip (MOST, not all). teachers do deserve more money, but you are essentially comparing employees of a corporation to those who work for governments... not the same thing.

in case you dont know how business works, it cost a **** load of money to develop a product. so it doesnt matter if you offer 2 fuel efficient cars if 90% of the vehicles youve already produced are not of those models when people decide thats what they want. 90% of your products just became essentially worthless, they could sell every single fuel efficient car they made and be broke.

and people dont work 7 days a week, they work 5... check your math

03-04-2009, 03:28 PM	#163 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	Thats bs... The most economical car you can buy is american made... And its electric and its sold out. The bottom line is in reading a little more is that im not wrong im only half way right. Its everywhere in the company. Yes private jets to go to meetings concearning money problems so on and so fourth. Seems to me that nobody wanted a pay cut and everyone wanted a fatter wallet from the top to the bottom. The Moral of this story is Greed, I mean honestly these ppl were paid to sit at home. And i mean PAID. 90-95 % of there normal pay. Im not mad at you I just know the next f-ing time i see ppl that are making more than me stand out side whining and complaining about low pay I will tell you that i told you so. Just seems like we should feel bad that they dont get 200k a year for manual labor. What the hell do they do thats worse than anything else? Thats why i dont like strikes every time i see it i see greed. It got so bad we had the MLB going on strike if you remember I mean thats greed to the T. __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

03-04-2009, 05:20 PM	#164 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	I guess you understand where am coming from now __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

03-05-2009, 11:15 AM	#168 (permalink)
Yukon Cornelius Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 625	I agree with everything but the market shift part, thats crap: The big three do make more than gas guzzling giants. And the Foreign market makes more than just fuel efficient cars. Tundra Tacoma Titan 350z fj cruiser ect Chevy aveo dodge neon Dodge Caliber ect. People have just been brainwashed into thinking that these cars are so much better which is crap. Hondas were here in the 70's and how many 1970 whatever hondas do you see? However there are still old 70's clunkers running around. Either way if its a gas friendly car your looking for everyone has an option for you. Dont forget it. __________________ Attempting to find a cure for Stupid...

03-04-2009, 03:09 PM	#162 (permalink)
sleepy jack isfckingdead Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18,967	Ignoring the obvious partisanship in the article the problem with this article is two things. This isn't union workers fault. If an industry is paying extravagant amounts of money to union workers you do what every industry does...lay people off and cut benefits. This points more towards poor leadership than union problems. Anyway he's still drawing the wrong conclusions and ignoring key evidence. He even contradicts himself by stating that the auto industry had to up the price of cars to afford the union workers demands...if that were the case they wouldn't be in trouble because it was balanced out. Unless of course people stop buying the cars in which case the logical thing to do would be to...cut benefits and drop the price of cars or give up some of their own paycheck or maybe sell their private jets. This is all hypothetical of course, the point I'm making is if that were true it would still be the fault of bad leadership. The reality is people didn't stop purchasing cars from the big three because they were too expensive. They did it because the cars were gas guzzlers and nobody wanted them. The auto industry admitted this when they appeared before Congress asking for a bail out. People want fuel efficient cars, they want smart cars, they want hybrids, and electric cars. They don't want gas guzzling SUVs and Diesel trucks, people can't afford them anymore. Only this one professor, who clearly has an agenda, is blaming it on Union workers and ignoring the basic laws of Supply and Demand - much like the auto industry itself has.

03-05-2009, 09:01 AM	#167 (permalink)
joyboyo53 down the rabbit hole Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: the mountain called monkey Posts: 764	god damnit. i just typed an entire page about you guys bitching about the auto industry and **ing brower crashed. its bad enough i waste time ing around on message board, losing 20 minutes of typing and thought is aggrivating as hell. in short, the auto industry has been brought to its knees by a multitude of reason, not one single explanation as you guys wanna believe. bad managment - money pissed away on a overly diversified product that has been failing for over a decade. they sell 30 different packages and 30 differnt models. consumers are confused and its a waste of r/d money. why not create a small lineup of quality cars that have easily replacable parts and develop a whole ** ton of after market products to sell at hiked up prices (think scion, only way better). those who want a unique car will get it, those who want a cheaper more reliable car will get it. union workers - you can pretend these guys are just asking for fair compensation, but they are compensated FAR beyond anyone else in the labor market (approx $75/hr with benefits). if these guys were worth their weight in gold they should get another job... o wait they cant, they arent qualified for anything else. its nobody elses fault they didnt pursue more lucrative careers. a job is a privledge not a right. market shift - you cant completly blame the big 3 for an overnight shift to more eco friendly fuel efficient cars. nobody was bitching as they bought up all the hummers, suvs, and other gas guzzles for the past 20 years. gas prices sky rocketted, and they are suppose to be able to release an entire new lineup of products within 6 months? get real, the huge shift in consumer demand is what had the largest effect on these companies.

03-05-2009, 04:03 PM	#170 (permalink)
joyboyo53 down the rabbit hole Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: the mountain called monkey Posts: 764	both cops and teachers have unions... btw most of cops never use their guns or save anyones life. im not saying all cops suck, but your crazy if you have some idealisitic view of them. most of them are donut chomping highschool dropouts on a power trip (MOST, not all). teachers do deserve more money, but you are essentially comparing employees of a corporation to those who work for governments... not the same thing. in case you dont know how business works, it cost a **** load of money to develop a product. so it doesnt matter if you offer 2 fuel efficient cars if 90% of the vehicles youve already produced are not of those models when people decide thats what they want. 90% of your products just became essentially worthless, they could sell every single fuel efficient car they made and be broke. and people dont work 7 days a week, they work 5... check your math