Solipsism Syndrome

Barnard17 · 03-20-2010, 06:22 PM

The irony of the two bits you decided to pick up on and complain about by countering their meanings when de-contextualised to strawman my point about strawmanning is not lost.

duga · 03-20-2010, 06:47 PM

I've mentioned this somewhere else before in a different context, but it works nicely here as well. I'm going to quote one of my favorite scientists, Carl Sagan. The man. According to him, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

I'm a personal believer in collective consciousness and experience. We don't have individual souls, just a common experience of life in individual bodies. As for Solipsism, I've dealt with that myself, but it never bothered me to the point of lethargy. Even if my entire existence is my own creation and totally in my head, my experience is there nonetheless regardless of the context it is in.

I didn't want to go the obvious route and use this quote, but it fits so now I will:

"I think, therefore I am"

P A N · 03-21-2010, 02:56 AM

what the crap does "strawmanning" mean?

boo boo · 03-21-2010, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zevokes

what the crap does "strawmanning" mean?

Creating a straw man? Arguing against something that your opponent wasn't actually suggesting?

I know I get accused of that a lot, and I admit I am prone to misunderstanding people all the time but I think people constantly make the same mistakes regarding my own statements and right now I'm not even sure what cardboard is accusing me of suggesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

Your belief that the ultimate answer is that there is no ultimate answer is self-contradictory, and since the "ultimate answer" is the root of all your thought structures and hence all your behavior, everything you do traces back to a contradiction which means you can only ever be in conflict with your situation. If life is meaningless, as some claim, that doesn't mean that you can make your own meaning, which would imply that life in fact has a plurality of meanings, which would make it profoundly meaningful. What the statement "life is meaningless" means is that any attempt to establish meaning subverts itself. That's incredibly scary. That means that every thing you could possibly do ever will undo itself. That's true meaninglessness. That's not something you get around by saying, well fuck it playing guitar is what will be meaningful for me. It means that the more you get into playing guitar the more you will realize that it's only making you suffer.

I'm just stating my opinions, I'm not looking forward to battling with you because I'm a mismatched opponent. I have absolutely no academic background on this topic. My views on philosophy are based purely on experience and observation of the world around me. If you start quoting Hume, Kant, Locke or whoever your literary heroes are I'm gonna get lost along the way, because my cultural knowledge doesn't really extend beyond the geeky stuff.

However I don't think this makes your opinion more valid than mine, since I don't really think life can be so easily understood just by reading a lot of textbooks of other people's opinions, I'm not saying that's all you're doing, but we're around the same age, we probably live very different lifestyles hence our different points of view, I just hope you don't think I'm an idiot just because I lack your acquirement of literary knowledge.

And also arguing with me is pointless since I'm only a figment of your imagination.

Neapolitan · 03-21-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

What the statement "life is meaningless" means is that any attempt to establish meaning subverts itself. That's incredibly scary. That means that every thing you could possibly do ever will undo itself. That's true meaninglessness. That's not something you get around by saying, well [bleep] it playing guitar is what will be meaningful for me. It means that the more you get into playing guitar the more you will realize that it's only making you suffer.

Playing guitar is extremely fustrating do to the fact it is finite instrument, with a infinite potential for creativity. It looks easy but is extremely hard arrive at the potential that meets one's expectation. The more you learn the less you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnard17

The irony of the two bits you decided to pick up on and complain about by countering their meanings when de-contextualised to strawman my point about strawmanning is not lost.

Your irony surpasses mine. Because you are strawmanning me for strawmanning you who in all actuality was strawmanning Cardboard for strawmanning Boo.
OK you got your two bits in so I'll add my two bits in too, by reiterating what zevokes said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by zevokes

what the crap does "strawmanning" mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

I've mentioned this somewhere else before in a different context, but it works nicely here as well. I'm going to quote one of my favorite scientists, Carl Sagan. The man. According to him, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."

I'm a personal believer in collective consciousness and experience. We don't have individual souls, just a common experience of life in individual bodies.

People do have individual souls. Even though people may have personal experiences that are in common with each other, in truth each person's individual experience of life is unique to that person never to repeated by anyone in whole history of the universe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

"I think, therefore I am"

I like to past-tense that. "I thought, therefore I was" because it makes me think whatever happen to my past self and did I really exist in any point of time in the past?

duga · 03-22-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

People do have individual souls. Even though people may have personal experiences that are in common with each other, in truth each person's individual experience of life is unique to that person never to repeated by anyone in whole history of the universe.

I like to past-tense that. "I thought, therefore I was" because it makes me think whatever happen to my past self and did I really exist in any point of time in the past?

To the first part...there is no way you can prove that to me. Memories and experiences could be boiled down to nothing but nerve impulses stored in the memory of your physical body. Once it dies, so do the memories, and so do those individual experiences you are talking about.

For the second part...wtf does that even mean? How does it rebut the quote I posted? You are arguing for the sake of arguing again.

Barnard17 · 03-22-2010, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

OK you got your two bits in so I'll add my two bits in too, by reiterating what zevokes said:

Let me google that for you

That was difficult.

boo boo · 03-22-2010, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duga

To the first part...there is no way you can prove that to me. Memories and experiences could be boiled down to nothing but nerve impulses stored in the memory of your physical body. Once it dies, so do the memories, and so do those individual experiences you are talking about.

For the second part...wtf does that even mean? How does it rebut the quote I posted? You are arguing for the sake of arguing again.

I think you're grossly misunderstanding the point he's trying to make.

He's saying people are unique and that two people's life experiences can never be exactly the same.

This of course is just a blatantly obvious fact. I don't think he meant "souls" in the spiritual/religious sense, but since that seems to be what you think he was implying I think it's rather arrogant of you to just write it off like you're debunking something.

Guybrush · 03-22-2010, 05:48 AM

A soul can't be seen, has never been measured, we don't know how something like a soul could evolve, we don't know of anything that could create souls and if souls are true, we don't know anything about how they behave - like are they eternal? Are they somehow recycled? Do they occupy more than one body throughout their existence? Do they go to a heaven or hell?

The point is not they're a figment of people's imagination, although it could be. It's that discussing aggressively concepts which we can't prove exist outside fantasy is kind of futile.

duga · 03-22-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

I think you're grossly misunderstanding the point he's trying to make.

He's saying people are unique and that two people's life experiences can never be exactly the same.

This of course is just a blatantly obvious fact. I don't think he meant "souls" in the spiritual/religious sense, but since that seems to be what you think he was implying I think it's rather arrogant of you to just write it off like you're debunking something.

How was what I said debunking something? I was defending what I said as a response to him acting as if he could debunk my earlier statement. If you read my response more closely you will notice I started it off by saying there is no way he could prove his belief to me, while I can't prove mine to him. If he was talking about people's individual experiences in the physical world, he shouldn't use the word soul. And his response to my quote...I just plain don't understand the point he was trying to make.

This comes after a long history of Neapolitan responding to my posts attacking minor points and making no sense at all.

03-20-2010, 06:22 PM	#71 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	The irony of the two bits you decided to pick up on and complain about by countering their meanings when de-contextualised to strawman my point about strawmanning is not lost. __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

03-20-2010, 06:47 PM	#72 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I've mentioned this somewhere else before in a different context, but it works nicely here as well. I'm going to quote one of my favorite scientists, Carl Sagan. The man. According to him, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." I'm a personal believer in collective consciousness and experience. We don't have individual souls, just a common experience of life in individual bodies. As for Solipsism, I've dealt with that myself, but it never bothered me to the point of lethargy. Even if my entire existence is my own creation and totally in my head, my experience is there nonetheless regardless of the context it is in. I didn't want to go the obvious route and use this quote, but it fits so now I will: "I think, therefore I am" __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

03-22-2010, 05:48 AM	#79 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	A soul can't be seen, has never been measured, we don't know how something like a soul could evolve, we don't know of anything that could create souls and if souls are true, we don't know anything about how they behave - like are they eternal? Are they somehow recycled? Do they occupy more than one body throughout their existence? Do they go to a heaven or hell? The point is not they're a figment of people's imagination, although it could be. It's that discussing aggressively concepts which we can't prove exist outside fantasy is kind of futile. __________________ Something Completely Different

03-21-2010, 02:56 AM	#73 (permalink)
P A N DO LIKE YOU. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 629	what the crap does "strawmanning" mean?