Solipsism Syndrome

Guybrush · 03-16-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Alice

everything we do can be basicaly put down to the servival of the speces

From the perspective of current evolutionary theory, this is grossly old fashioned thinking which is not just wrong but hinders people in understanding how we and evolution actually work. Somehow, a lot of people still believe this which must mean it's been taught until fairly recently or even is still being taught in schools at the moment. Horrible

Sorry about the digression .. How old are you by the way?

P A N · 03-17-2010, 01:07 AM

solipsism is a figment of the imagination, probably self-designed in an effort to divert the self's attention from social responsibility and accountability.

cardboard adolescent · 03-17-2010, 01:43 PM

ironically enough it seems that the way sartre wiggled his way out of the problem of solipsism was precisely by centering the self on the other, so it could focus on social responsibility rather than itself, and trying to find a standard of reference in itself.

P A N · 03-17-2010, 07:01 PM

sartre's life was weird by anyone's standards, and he was incredibly insecure despite his free love act. i have no faith in that guy's works or ideas. seemingly brilliant, but realistically not quite pragmatic.

also, i think if you've lost the "standard of reference" in the self, it is doubtful that a philosophy revolving around the idea that the subject is the only thing bearing the weight of experience in reality will provide a working framework within which one can properly handle his affairs. to me, it seems the opposite is true, particularly in sartre's case.

boo boo · 03-19-2010, 01:32 PM

Cardboard, if you think it's a contagious disease and really THAT dangerous of an idealogy, why are you making threads and posting videos about it? You know very well that will invoke everyone's curiousity.

Personally, I struggled with thoughts like these when I was a teenager, I didn't know what the word for it was. I was a kid with nothing to do so I constantly looked for ridiculous things to get worried or obsessed about.

Eventually I came to realize how stupidly egotistical stuff like this is. There is absolutely no way to prove it or disprove it but why would anyone actually be convinced that they are the only thing that exists? Because they're egotistical d*cks, that's why.

Solipsism is the stupidest philopsophy ever, it does not teach you anything, people who run themselves into a circle trying to figure this sh*t out are wasting their lives to try and prove something that can't be proven and even if could, what's the point? What's the point in knowing everything is an illusion if you had no way to escape from it? It would be better for the sake of your sanity to remain oblivious.

I wonder how many people have killed themselves because of this stupid idealogy. I know that all of my experiences feel real to me, so even if everything is my creation, what am I to do? Become distached from the world? Which I already am anyway. Human beings are not capable of looking at anything with true objectivity, even if nothing is real, the important thing is that it seems real. And my life goals should be persued regardless, my goals wouldn't be more relevant if the world was real, actually less so because then I wouldn't be god, I'm just an insignificant speck in the universe. This is why I think solipsism is just a wet dream for egomaniacs, it's a license for douchebaggery.

I mean, if everyone and everything is just a part of you, then wouldn't it be the best idea to NOT dissociate yourself with all that exists? That perhaps learning more about the world would help you learn more about yourself? Unfortunately solipsism is an excuse for lazy dipsh*ts to avoid any sense of social responsablity.

One thing I know for sure is, I'm not a figment of any of you people's imagination, are any of you people a figment of MY imagination? I dunno, what do you think? Why would I waste my time creating people like you whom I can't even interact with in person?

I consider myself creative, but not creative enough to create the entire universe, even if all that exists is only what I have experienced, because there is so many things that boggle my mind and I don't even understand. And of course the idea that I can create things so complex and not even understand them at all is a pretty out there belief. How could I be all knowing and completely ignorant at the same time?

I think it's bullsh*t.

I'm an aspiring writer, I have all these other worlds and characters existing in my head, they're more interesting to me than the real world and real people, so if I was god and was capable of creating such things, why wouldn't I have created worlds and beings like what's in my head instead of this boring, mundane existance full of people who don't realise that this guy they ignore every day is F*CKING GOD CREATOR OF ALL THINGS?

If I created all of this because I was lonely, well then, that was totally in vain because I'm lonely anyway, why would I create all these people and not a single person that I can actually relate with? Why would I create a world without having any real sense of purpose in it?

And perhaps this is a more simplified way of looking at it but if I was god I would like to think I'd have, you know, some way of manipulating the world around me.

I'm picturing in my mind, a bunch of horny naked chicks suddenly appearing in my bedroom. I'll give this some time to take effect.

.............................

Nope, nothing has happ... WAIT!!!....... Nope, never mind, nothing happened.

cardboard adolescent · 03-19-2010, 02:33 PM

all I hear is that you're dissatisfied with your life, and don't seem to think that you can ever arrive at definite answers about the nature of reality. attacking an ideology is a rather silly way to deal with those frustrations. if you really think you want a bunch of naked horny chicks and that will make your existence perfect, you can dedicate yourself to manipulating you existence until that becomes feasible. i'm sure that if you set yourself to it, you can do it. if, however, you realize that maybe sex orgies aren't the end all of existence, you might feel compelled to start digging deeper into what existence is, and by correlation, what is possible in existence. but i would recommend focusing less on how stupid other people and their beliefs/ways of life are and more on what justifies your own. if you're totally comfortable in this, forgive me for being an arrogant bastard, but I feel that people who don't believe there's an ultimate answer just haven't looked hard enough ... :]

boo boo · 03-19-2010, 03:01 PM

I don't think it's closed minded to detest an idealogy that I think only motivates people to be egotistical asswhipes who think they are the only significant being in existance. I kinda see it as being a kind of egotistical fascism. It makes me wonder if most crazy and power hungry people are people who spent way too much time investing in these kinda beliefs, in which case you're right about it being a dangerous idealogy. Though I find it hypocritical that you're calling attention to it anyway.

I also find it pretty hilarious that solipsists actually have forums of discussion with each other, which is like Monty Python's level of absurdity.

I do believe in an ultimate answer, the answer being that there is no ultimate answer and that it doesn't f*cking matter, make your life however you see fit. I very strongly believe in individualism, not because I believe mankind has some greater divine purpose because I don't, but because our world is what we make it. The idea that life has no meaning isn't as scary as people stupidly make it out to be, it only means that we can create our own sense of meaning, and have no rules to abide by but the ones we create for ourselves.

It's mostly the things that people pass off as objective truth which holds society back, ideals regarding morals, knowledge, fate, wealth, beauty, authority, etc.

I hope these rantings don't make me sound like a humanist, I'm nowhere near as optimistic about the human race.

I also might give the impression that I'm an anarchist. I don't really know if I qualify or not. I would love to see a governmentless society, and not because I think it would lead to some peaceful utopian bullcrap (which IMO only a total idiot would believe) but rather if the world looked like a post appocayltic Heavy Metal magazine cover that would be pretty sweet. I don't think anarchy is ever possible though as long as people hold on to certain ideals about religion and social justice, and people always will, to intrude on the rights of these people would be contradictory to what anarchism is about.

The truth is people simply have an internal extinct that tells them to be oppressive to others, it's always been a tool to human survival, it still is.

cardboard adolescent · 03-20-2010, 03:35 AM

Your belief that the ultimate answer is that there is no ultimate answer is self-contradictory, and since the "ultimate answer" is the root of all your thought structures and hence all your behavior, everything you do traces back to a contradiction which means you can only ever be in conflict with your situation. If life is meaningless, as some claim, that doesn't mean that you can make your own meaning, which would imply that life in fact has a plurality of meanings, which would make it profoundly meaningful. What the statement "life is meaningless" means is that any attempt to establish meaning subverts itself. That's incredibly scary. That means that every thing you could possibly do ever will undo itself. That's true meaninglessness. That's not something you get around by saying, well fuck it playing guitar is what will be meaningful for me. It means that the more you get into playing guitar the more you will realize that it's only making you suffer.

Barnard17 · 03-20-2010, 04:16 AM

What a load of emotionally cocooning bullshit. The idea that life is meaningless doesn't mean that any self-determined purpose structure will collapse in on itself, it means that there's no belief in a divine body which creates an arbitrary meaning for you and instead you can find the purpose in your own life that suits what you like, and what you want to do. Don't strawman Boo's curious phrasing into a bizarre emo sob story because at the end of the day you're just chatting a load of wank, not proving anything.

Neapolitan · 03-20-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnard17

What a load of emotionally cocooning bullshit. The idea that life is meaningless doesn't mean that any self-determined purpose structure will collapse in on itself, it means that there's no belief in a divine body which creates an arbitrary meaning for you and instead you can find the purpose in your own life that suits what you like, and what you want to do. Don't strawman Boo's curious phrasing into a bizarre emo sob story because at the end of the day you're just chatting a load of wank, not proving anything.

If God is Omnipresence he could not be discribe or considered as having a body, because a body is finite, if what you're describing were contain in a body then the attributes you assign wouldn't be Omnipresence therefore not God, and therefore not divine.

God has infinite wisdom and is all knowing, He wouldn't do things willy-nilly, thing that are arbitrary and nonsensical, that's nominalism, it's kinda counterintuitive to describe a divine being that's Omniscience as having an arbitrary plan.

03-20-2010, 04:16 AM	#69 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	What a load of emotionally cocooning bullshit. The idea that life is meaningless doesn't mean that any self-determined purpose structure will collapse in on itself, it means that there's no belief in a divine body which creates an arbitrary meaning for you and instead you can find the purpose in your own life that suits what you like, and what you want to do. Don't strawman Boo's curious phrasing into a bizarre emo sob story because at the end of the day you're just chatting a load of wank, not proving anything. __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

03-17-2010, 01:07 AM	#62 (permalink)
P A N DO LIKE YOU. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 629	solipsism is a figment of the imagination, probably self-designed in an effort to divert the self's attention from social responsibility and accountability.

03-17-2010, 01:43 PM	#63 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	ironically enough it seems that the way sartre wiggled his way out of the problem of solipsism was precisely by centering the self on the other, so it could focus on social responsibility rather than itself, and trying to find a standard of reference in itself.

03-17-2010, 07:01 PM	#64 (permalink)
P A N DO LIKE YOU. Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 629	sartre's life was weird by anyone's standards, and he was incredibly insecure despite his free love act. i have no faith in that guy's works or ideas. seemingly brilliant, but realistically not quite pragmatic. also, i think if you've lost the "standard of reference" in the self, it is doubtful that a philosophy revolving around the idea that the subject is the only thing bearing the weight of experience in reality will provide a working framework within which one can properly handle his affairs. to me, it seems the opposite is true, particularly in sartre's case.

03-19-2010, 02:33 PM	#66 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	all I hear is that you're dissatisfied with your life, and don't seem to think that you can ever arrive at definite answers about the nature of reality. attacking an ideology is a rather silly way to deal with those frustrations. if you really think you want a bunch of naked horny chicks and that will make your existence perfect, you can dedicate yourself to manipulating you existence until that becomes feasible. i'm sure that if you set yourself to it, you can do it. if, however, you realize that maybe sex orgies aren't the end all of existence, you might feel compelled to start digging deeper into what existence is, and by correlation, what is possible in existence. but i would recommend focusing less on how stupid other people and their beliefs/ways of life are and more on what justifies your own. if you're totally comfortable in this, forgive me for being an arrogant bastard, but I feel that people who don't believe there's an ultimate answer just haven't looked hard enough ... :]

03-20-2010, 03:35 AM	#68 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	Your belief that the ultimate answer is that there is no ultimate answer is self-contradictory, and since the "ultimate answer" is the root of all your thought structures and hence all your behavior, everything you do traces back to a contradiction which means you can only ever be in conflict with your situation. If life is meaningless, as some claim, that doesn't mean that you can make your own meaning, which would imply that life in fact has a plurality of meanings, which would make it profoundly meaningful. What the statement "life is meaningless" means is that any attempt to establish meaning subverts itself. That's incredibly scary. That means that every thing you could possibly do ever will undo itself. That's true meaninglessness. That's not something you get around by saying, well fuck it playing guitar is what will be meaningful for me. It means that the more you get into playing guitar the more you will realize that it's only making you suffer.