the *** sex & religion thread (shows, quote, Inci, Lute)

[streetwaves]

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

Yeah, but if you give it meaning then life isn't meaningless anymore.

i agree. meaning is a man-made concept, and therefore the only relevant (or even possible) meaning is assigned by man.

[cardboard adolescent]

nevertheless at some point you have to face the fact that any meaning you have created is constructed out of nothing and will be undone by death

[streetwaves]

i'm obviously aware that any meaning in my life is constructed out of nothing, but how is that relevant?

[Inuzuka Skysword]

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

nevertheless at some point you have to face the fact that any meaning you have created is constructed out of nothing and will be undone by death

The meaning is created so that I might find happiness. It isn't created because I want to find truth. My life's purpose is to find happiness as I said earlier.

[cardboard adolescent]

Originally Posted by streetwaves

i'm obviously aware that any meaning in my life is constructed out of nothing, but how is that relevant?

by the way, your statement that "life is meaningless" makes no sense unless meaning exists in the first place.

that's not true, meaning is a property of language and not of life. language is something we drape over life, and we have a bad habit of confusing the two. of course, then meaninglessness is also simply a property of language and not of life, but the statement is trying to express something that can't really be put into words... an existential rather than intellectual truth, if you will.

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

The meaning is created so that I might find happiness. It isn't created because I want to find truth. My life's purpose is to find happiness as I said earlier.

who isn't looking for happiness? but there's a big gap between hedonism and objective meaning and morality. i understand that i am a pleasure-seeking being but if anything that makes my life seem more meaningless, since i know all pleasures are transitory and will just be replaced by another yearning, and so on, and so on, until i die.

[Inuzuka Skysword]

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

who isn't looking for happiness? but there's a big gap between hedonism and objective meaning and morality. i understand that i am a pleasure-seeking being but if anything that makes my life seem more meaningless, since i know all pleasures are transitory and will just be replaced by another yearning, and so on, and so on, until i die.

You are what you are though. Why would you yearn for something beyond reality if you know that you cannot have it? Don't you want to make the most out of existence? Pleasure is what we have and it is best to deal with it instead of yearning for something that doesn't exist.

[streetwaves]

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

that's not true, meaning is a property of language and not of life. language is something we drape over life, and we have a bad habit of confusing the two.



who isn't looking for happiness? but there's a big gap between hedonism and objective meaning and morality. i understand that i am a pleasure-seeking being but if anything that makes my life seem more meaningless, since i know all pleasures are transitory and will just be replaced by another yearning, and so on, and so on, until i die.

forgive me, i don't follow. if meaning is solely a property of language, weren't you only saying that the word life is without meaning? there is linguistic and extra-linguistic meaning, of course.

and again, how is meaning being derived from nothing relevant? and how can i possibly derive anything from nothing, if i have no free will? but again, i find the free will question to be irrelevant.

i've got to go for a little while but i look forward to talking later! forgive me for my lack of philosophical knowledge, by the way.

[cardboard adolescent]

^^ i edited my post a bit right before you responded. meaning is derived from nothing when we try to make one particular goal in life objectively meaningful in and of itself. all meaning is relative and depends on pre-existing structures. these structures generate meaning but are unable to account for their own meaning... they are reactions against an undercurrent of meaninglessness which they are unable to incorporate into themselves.

Originally Posted by Inuzuka Skysword

You are what you are though. Why would you yearn for something beyond reality if you know that you cannot have it? Don't you want to make the most out of existence? Pleasure is what we have and it is best to deal with it instead of yearning for something that doesn't exist.

i fully agree but i just don't think it's possible to construct an objective morality out of that principle without running into a handfull of contradictions

[Inuzuka Skysword]

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

i fully agree but i just don't think it's possible to construct an objective morality out of that principle without running into a handfull of contradictions

Logic is the way of constructing it with out contradictions. Logic is the best way we have. Logic is the only somewhat-reliable way of observing the universe. Since it is the best way we have, why would we not view it as an absolute?

[cardboard adolescent]

because logic is not able to rid itself of contradictions, it cannot achieve a unity and a totality. that is basically what all major developments of the 20th century philosophy, science and mathematics teach us, see godel's proof see quantum mechanics see post-modernism in general.